User talk:StevenJ81/Archive 1

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(rendering no longer needed) StevenJ81 (talk) 15:20, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[]

Khowar Wikipedia

@StevenJ81 thanks for fixing errors in Khowar Wikipedia, i hope in future your goodself will help as well --Raki 03:51, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[]

@Raki, you're welcome. Glad to help. Anything I can help with (as long as I don't have to read the language!). StevenJ81 (talk) 21:38, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81: I have copied a template from here [1] and created this template [2]for khowar wikipedia but unfortunately i am unable to fix the error, please fix this --Akbaralighazi (talk) 06:30, 8 March 2016 (UTC)[]
OK. Give me a day or two to have a look. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:56, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[]
@Akbaralighazi: OK. I see a couple of problems here, and since the only RTL script I can personally handle easily is Hebrew, I think you'll have to correct it yourself. However, here's what you'll need to do:
  1. Right now, the template's formal name is Template:Wp/khw/مخفف مس/دستاویز. That looks to me as if it is a documentation subpage of Template:Wp/khw/مخفف مس. Is that correct? If so, this documentation is never going to work properly until you have imported the base template itself, which can be found here: ur:سانچہ:مخفف مہینا.
  2. Even once you do that, the documentation page won't work as written, because on Incubator, the template calls have to start with their prefixes. So {{‎مخفف مس‎|january}} will not work; the template call would have to look like this: {{Wp/khw/‎مخفف مس‎|january}}.
Once you've done all that, see if it works. If not, ping me again. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81:Please fix the template here [3]Regards--Raki 04:15, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[]
@Rachitrali: What do you want me to fix? StevenJ81 (talk) 14:12, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81:The template error in infobox here [4]--Raki 15:15, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[]
@Raki: I've done what I can for now. You have to be very strict about prefixing templates. Where you seem to forget to do this is in subtemplate calls—that is, where a template calls a template. And these won't work on Incubator unless they are prefixed.
I was able to fix everything within the infobox. (Note that I added a couple of <span dir=ltr></span> pairs around the siblings; if you are going to translate the words "brother" and "sister" you can probably remove those.)
I switched the order of "references" and "external links" because that is the usual practice on Wikipedias. Within those sections:
  • I was not able to fix the template calls in the references. They seem to be called by a Lua module, and I am not very knowledgeable about those. You're going to have to figure out where {{Citation/core}} gets called, and make sure {{Wp/khw/Citation/core}} gets called instead.
  • Typically, in a rtl language, your sister project boxes (like the Commons box on this page) should appear on the left, although it's up to you whether it should actually appear below the infobox or just to its right. Since you've used Lua to develop these boxes I'm not sure how to fix that myself. But I will say that I tried to use the parameter |position=left without success.
  • Concerning the IMDB template: it looks like you are trying to provide both a link to a Wikipedia article (maybe about IMDB itself) and a link to the subject's IMDB page. Is that right? If so ...
    The name of the article needs to be prefixed–and I couldn't find a prefixed article.
    You cannot use the default of {{PAGENAME}} to find the subject's IMDB page, because on IMDB's website, her name is always "Lindsay Lohan", not "لنزی لوہان". Linking to a page at IMDB called "لنزی لوہان" is meaningless. So it will always be necessary to explicitly include the parameter |name= on Khowar Wikipedia. Note how I did it on the Lindsay Lohan page.
  • Concerning the "official website" templates: There seems to have been an extra pair of square brackets that was breaking things. That much I fixed. But I do not know if this now appears the way you want it to.
I hope that has helped. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:31, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81: Thank you very much for fixing the template errors --Raki 03:57, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81: Please fix the Falg Template in this article [5] Thanks--Raki 05:06, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[]
Thank you very much for kind words, wishes and suggestions. Regards--Raki 15:29, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[]

Admin status started here

Approval of Wp/bgn (Western Balochi) and Wp/khw (Khowar language)

Hi Mr Steven
Congratulations to you for adminship of Incubator :)
Can please help us for approval Wp/bgn and Wp/khw languages?! They are active languages in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran.--Ibrahim Khashrowdi (TalK) 22:52, 27 November 2016 (UTC)[]

As-salamu alaykum, Ibrahim, and thank you for your kind words.
I am new as an administrator here, and User:MF-Warburg is far more knowledgeable about the process of getting wikis approved than I am. And we don't decide those things, the Language committee does. As far as I can tell:
  • To me, the one real disadvantage of having a project on Incubator instead of in its own domain is that it is not accessible through Wikidata. If MF-W's proposal goes through, there will be little disadvantage in having projects hosted here in Incubator. See I:Community Portal#Wikidata support. I think that might end up being important for you if you want to maintain the separate Balochi projects and the Language Committee doesn't want to go along.
Good luck. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:04, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[]
Wa aleykum salam. sorry for my poor English :( Thanks alot bro for your good and useful information, yes of course we will do all need things, @Rachitrali: bro need to your help for translate requirement localization messages of khowar wiki and other!--Ibrahim Khashrowdi (TalK) 20:28, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[]
@Ibrahim khashrowdi: I am not a member of the Language Committee either but here is my advice: Focus on getting one language approved first. There currently three Balochi requests:
(i) At first glance, this would normally confuse non-Balochi readers because they are not experts in the Balochi language and unsure which Balochi variant they should support and create first. In my opinion, I think the Western Balochi language (Wp/bgn) should be given first priority over the other variants because it is the most active of the three, and it is the Balochi variant that you and the other active Balochi Wikipedians speak the best.
(ii) I do not necessarily agree that all three variants should be lumped together into one single Balochi Macro-language Wikipedia because their orthographies may be quite different and there is also the issue of the writing system to be used. Some Eastern Balochi speakers may prefer using the Latin alphabet to write Eastern Balochi and I would support this idea because the Balochi Latin orthography does exist. The 30,000 Western Balochi speakers living in Turkmenistan would probably write Balochi in the Cyrillic and Latin alphabets because Balochi textbooks in Turkmenistan were written in Cyrillic during the soviet period. The Southern Balochi language (Wp/bcc) can be created a bit later.
Also, take a look at other examples:
So my advice to you is to focus on one language variant first instead of trying to get them all approved and created at the same time. --Ernesztina (talk) 08:47, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[]
Thank you, Ernesztina. That's really helpful.
Let me add: I think you should focus on Khowar before any of the rest, because it appears to me as if it is either already ready to go or very close. Then focus on Western Balochi. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:42, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81:,@Ernesztina:,@Ibrahim khashrowdi: Thank you for your valuable support of Khowar Wikipedia. We have already completed the all requirements i..e translations, localization, system messages, templates, portals and many more active users are tirelessly working on Khowar wikipedia. I have created a Khowar Keyboard for khowar articles for Khowar wikipedia which is very helpful for Khowar wikipedia, being a test admin i have translated the required most used system messages in and waiting for early approval and creation of Khowar wikipedia, please support help us. Regards --Raki 04:08, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[]
@MF-Warburg, Ernesztina, Rachitrali, Ibrahim khashrowdi: Thank you, Raki. I am pinging MF-W, since he is on the Language Committee. He's in the best position to help you move forward. Do have a look at this page on translatewiki. A couple of the core messages are shown as "OUTDATED". You may wish to have a quick look at these. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:00, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81: Khowar Translations   Done--Raki 11:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[]

Delete Request

Sir, I am contributing on Bodo Wikipedia test, and the words are written in Devanagari script. But there are 2 articles written in Latin script, which are not allowed on Bodo Wikipedia test, I have requested deletion for it but nobody deleted it, So I request you to delete the pages, articles will be found here:

bodo Wikipedia's main page: गाहाइ बिलाइ --gni 04:32, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

These pages do not exist. (I deleted Bhalugmari yesterday.) I am trying to clean up a backlog of pages marked for deletion, so please be patient. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[]

Delete Wa/ba/сәк-сәк

Good time of day! The reason is that there is an article-take. Our administrators have already removed the excess paper. Thank you!--З. ӘЙЛЕ (talk) 09:51, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[]

about Incubator test project of Zazaki Wikivoyage


Qraleya Zewbiyayi was written in a dialect of Zazaki, it isn't standard. And Amerikaya Veroci is totally false. Amerika Veroci or Amerikay Veroci are true. And Ameriqay Veroci is false too. Vuzorg (talk) 13:18, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[]

Thank you, Vuzorg. In process.
While we're talking: Please have a look at the test project Wt/zza. There are already Wiktionary projects at Wt/diq and Wt/kiu, so Wt/zza (coded to a macrolanguage) seems to be unnecessary. There are only a few pages here. Could you let me know if there is anything worth moving into one of the other two projects? Thank you. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:13, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[]
@Vılaroci, Vuzorg: OK. I've finished working through the deletion requests, and have come to the following results, based on (a) Zazaki Wikipedia and (b) the current state of the Zazaki Wikivoyage test:
  • I've settled the pages for Amerikay Veroci (and similar) on that spelling—not on the spelling Amerikaya, and not on the spelling Ameriqay(a). Similar, I settled the page of ZDA at DAY, because that is consistent with the article in Wikipedia.
    • User:Vılaroci: You have the burden of proof (and it's a high one) to prove that those spellings are wrong. Since the Wikipedia is already an approved project, I have to take it as being correct unless you can really provide some specific, reliable proof to the contrary. (And to be honest, if you have such proof, you should take it to the Zazaki Wikipedia to try to rename pages there, too.)
  • In most of the other cases, I denied the deletion requests, and then repurposed those pages as redirects. There are two main reasons why. First, there are a lot of pages linked into the old names. At a certain point, I didn't think I ought to fix all of those links to point to the new name. Leaving the redirect ensures that the links will continue to work. Second, a number of those pages have substantial edit histories; I didn't want to lose those edit histories.
If you have a problem with these results, please let me know. Going forward, please try to make sure that this test project works consistently with the approved Wikipedia, rather than at cross-purposes. Thank you.
PS: I would still like input on Wt/zza, if you would be so kind. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:55, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[]
StevenJ81, hello again. I looked at the test project Wt/zza. I think that it was created for central dialect of Zazaki language by someone. But it is composed of Northern Zazaki articles. And:
There are a lot of wrong thins in Zazaki Wikivoyage project. I will arrange them, thanks. Vuzorg (talk) 16:21, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[]
Thank you, Vuzorg. Is there something worthwhile to move into Wt/kiu, then, or should it just be deleted? StevenJ81 (talk) 16:28, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[]
I think that all of it should be deleted. Those articles already exists in Wt/kiu. Vuzorg (talk) 16:40, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[]
What page at Wt/kiu is equivalent to Wt/zza/Zazaqısebend? StevenJ81 (talk) 19:36, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[]
Hello again StevenJ81, for example Wt/kiu/Adırge is equivalent Wt/zza/Adırge. Thanks. Vuzorg (talk) 13:08, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[]
Hi, Vuzorg. That one I figured out. I just don't want to lose anything before I delete, and I couldn't figure out what was equivalent to Zazaqısebend. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:41, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[]
I looked at index of Zazaqısebend, there are only two articles in Zazaqısebend; Wt/zza/Adırge and the article below Portal. In fact I did not understand what will we lose. Zaza is name of central dialect of Zazaki language (others: Dımli diq, southern Zaza and Kırmancki kiu, northern Zaza) but Zazaqısebend was written in Northern Zazaki (kiu). So I want to say it that project is erroneous. Vuzorg (talk)
I guess I'm not being clear. What is the content of the page Wt/zza/Zazaqısebend? (Translate it to English for me—it's short.) If it's useful, but written in kiu, then let's move the article to Wt/kiu. If it's not useful I'll delete it. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:26, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[]
Okay :) Well, only two useful articles I see on Zazaqısebend Wt/zza/Adırge and this one Template:Wt/zza/Dor1. And these two articles was written in kiu and they exists in kiut. All others are blank. So I said that all these should be deleted. Vuzorg (talk) 14:36, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[]
Fine. Thank you for the help. Look, there seem to be conflicts around the Wikimedia world between the diq people and the kiu people. I'm just trying to be a little careful here. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:45, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[]
You're welcome. Well, where it seem to be conflicts between the diq people and the kiu people in Wikimedia? Diq people and Kiu people are same, all of them are Zaza. Vuzorg (talk) 21:27, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[]

Reason for deleting a category

Hi Steve.I(Qilavuz (talk) 15:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)) delete a category because of its not-suite name.please accept my request. im the only man who work on .thanks[]

Hello, User:Qilavuz. Did you move this to something with the correct name? If so, where? That's what I was asking. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:42, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[]
Hello, User:StevenJ81. Yes I did. It's here. I changed name from "Story" to "Folklore-story" in my language. Other two page that you un-done,deleted with same the way i have problem with listing words correctly. All words are listing with a "wt/azb/"word""Prefix. This is the page that all words gathered.
I will go ahead and delete those two pages. I'll look at the other issue and get back to you. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:07, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[]
First of all, Qilavuz, you have to leave the ":" character in. Otherwise I can't see the page you are trying to show me. Instead, the software puts my talk page into those categories. And that's not what you meant to do.
Now: What is the problem you are having with listing words correctly? What are you trying to get it to do, and what's going wrong? StevenJ81 (talk) 16:14, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[]

Thanks for Guidances.I say Categories lists included words with a prefix (wt/azb/"myword"). i want see my page name without prefix. for example you can regard to this[[6]] category.

You deleted the : again. Stop it. Don't touch anything else either one of us has written above.
When you are putting a page in a category, you have to write it as [[Category:Wt/azb/...]] like you are doing. If you want someone to look at a category page, you have to write it with a colon in front: [[:Category:Wt/azb/...]]. Do you see the difference? So please just don't change anything you wrote up above again. Leave it alone. Otherwise, you will make it too hard for me to help you.
Now:As for "Wt/azb/'myword'": The problem here is that "myword" is really part of the name of the page. You can see the list without "myword" by going to Special:PrefixIndex and entering "Wt/azb/'myword'" as the prefix you are looking for—and you can check the Hide the prefix in results box to see the list without the prefix. But eventually you will still have trouble with this if Azeri Wiktionary is approved, because "myword"word isn't really an appropriate name for an entry in a Wiktionary. Why did you name pages that way? StevenJ81 (talk) 16:52, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[]

"my word" 'word' was an example.lets describe it with another example. I create some new page. for example(numbers in my language): "بیر" ،"ایکی"،"اوچ" and so on.then i put a category inside each page ,to list all of them in one category(for example category:سایی ).The problem is here, when i go to categery "category:سایی" .all above words listed like this: * wt/azb/بیر * wt/azb/ایکی * wt/azb/اوچ . but what i want to see is this :*بیر *ایکی *اوچ without prefix(wt/azb/ ). StevenJ81 if you can't understand me,take it easy. i will find the answer by researching in wiktionary help pages.

OK. Now I understand.
If you really want to see the list without the "Wt/azb", then you can go to Special:PrefixIndex, enter Wt/azb as the prefix you want to search on, check off the box Hide the prefix in results, and then click. You will see a list there without the "Wt/azb" in it. However, that will show all pages starting with Wt/azb, not only the ones in one category.
If you want to use a category page for that purpose, there is no way to show the category page without the Wt/azb prefix on each entry (I don't think), because the pages have "Wt/azb" as part of the name. I will mention, though, that if Wt/azb is approved and is moved to its own subdomain, the Wt/azb will be stripped off the page names in the process. So in an independent azb Wiktionary, this wouldn't be a problem. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:29, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[]
@Qilavuz: Can you tell me if this is good or bad: Wt/azb/قورد دلیگی? StevenJ81 (talk) 15:02, 28 December 2016 (UTC)[]

Hi and thanks for everything Mr.StevenJ81. I think my language must have its domain to solve that problem. Wt/azb/قورد دلیگی page has deleted correctly by its creator(my friend). and new one created here Wt/azb/قوُرد دلیگی.


Hello StevenJ81, Please delete this test page. Regards ☆★Raaza Upreti (✉✉) 14:24, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[]

@JuniorX2:   Done Best approach in the future is to tag it with {{delete|reason}}. We'll find it. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:27, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[]
Thanks ! ☆★Raaza Upreti (✉✉) 14:29, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[]

A barnstar for you!

  The Original Barnstar
Thank You Qilavuz (talk) 11:40, 31 December 2016 (UTC)[]
Thank you, Qilavuz! That's very kind of you. I hope you will have a happy, healthy, prosperous and peaceful year. StevenJ81 (talk) 01:44, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[]


Tests requiring final action at Langcom before they can be closed here

Wp/pkm Empty test.
Wp/qya Empty test.
Wp/scm Empty test.
Wp/zbl (Blisssymbols) (?)

Let's move PIE wiki to Incubator Plus

Yes, please move our PIE wiki to Incubator Plus before deletion. We do not want to have our work wasted. AA (talk) 09:50, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[]


Please delete the whole project. Sorry for the inconveniences caused. --Katxis (talk) 19:25, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[]

@Katxis: You have nothing to apologize for. Don't worry about that. I'm just trying to get things cleaned up. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:49, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[]


Greetings, and please allow me to explain: This category is one of the index categories of the Cantonese Wiktionary, which falls into the "please don't delete it even when it's empty" category. This time, I'll make sure it won't be empty before re-creating it. That being said, I would like to request that you talk to me before you delete another empty category on Cantonese Wiktionary because it might also be another index category. Thank you. 【粵語文學大使殘陽孤侠粵維辭典起錨! 17:30, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[]

@Cedric tsan cantonais: I'm happy to do that. Can I mention a couple of things?
  • I restored the category page. But if you look at its history, you'll see that someone tagged it for deletion. So you may wish to address that someone directly.
  • When I see a tag like that, and it's an empty category page, I would generally assume I can legitimately delete. Mind you, I won't assume that any more on Wt/yue (see below), but that's what I assumed in this case.
  • Consider adding an English notice on "please don't delete when empty" categories. You won't need that when this ports to its own subdomain, but as long as the test is still here on Incubator, that will help minimize misunderstandings like this.
  • Because you're a test-admin, you should visit I:D periodically and check on any pages marked for QD in your test. Going forward, I'm going to take the position that anything from Wt/yue that I find there will be your responsibility. I won't touch anything from Wt/yue unless it's been there at least 30 days. Fair enough? StevenJ81 (talk) 17:49, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[]
It is a misnamed category though. It was created as part of revision 2479046 (Wt/yue/扑街) but revision 2670341 fixed a spelling mistake and emptied the category. "pök" is not a w:Jyutping (粵拼) romanization syllable, it is a 新法蘭西 romanization syllable. (@Cedric tsan cantonais:) Suzukaze-c (talk) 19:16, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[]
The two of you should discuss this elsewhere. I shouldn't be involved. As a general rule, as the test administrator, User:Cedric_tsan_cantonais should handle QD requests for this test. I should only get involved if the community gets stuck. (Think of it as equivalent to how stewards act: only when there aren't local people with rights, or when local people with rights don't act.) StevenJ81 (talk) 19:31, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[]
Understood. I'm just notifying you in order to avoid a "wheel war". 【粵語文學大使殘陽孤侠粵維辭典起錨! 20:49, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[]
Got it. If you need me as an impartial closer I can do that. Discuss this at the Category talk page, and if you need me involved discuss it in English. I'm offline for the next 24 hours but will look in after that. Meanwhile, please have everyone leave the page alone. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:39, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[]

Purpose of tests

Hi, what was the purpose of your tests in MediaWiki:Administrated test wikis.json?

Danny B. 07:46, 11 January 2017 (UTC)[]

Next queue for I:RFD (Langcom rejections)



I've changed it, is it fine now? --Katxis (talk) 20:50, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[]

@Katxis: Really, we usually just let the root page go into categories. But if you really want it this way, I can live with it. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:16, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[]

Request for administration (wp/brx)

I want to be administration to manage the Bodo Wikipedia incubator project. I need administration to fix errors, delete errors and many more. can you make me permanent administration for bodo wikipedia test . I need permanent for future. --Mr. Nijwmsa Boro (talk) 06:15, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[]

Will address at I:A. Note that we never give permanent test-admin status; term is always one year. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:47, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[]

IPA Symbols

Sir in this article the IPA Symbols are not visible, please fix this: Wp/khw/پاکستانی_کھوار Regards --Raki 07:30, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[]
It may take me a couple of days to have enough time to work on this. Please note how I modified your link; that's a better way to link to pages in Incubator. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:48, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[]


Can you be a template creator of Bodo wikipedia test, I will give all translations. --Mr. Nijwmsa Boro (talk) 17:58, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[]

@Mr. Nijwmsa Boro: I will try to help as much as I can. There is a limit as to how much time I can spend on this (or on anything else in Wikimedia), and I have some overall responsibilities for watching Incubator and other projects. As I have time I will try to help. Let me lay out for you what I think I will and will not have time to do:
  • I am not a programmer, and don't really understand Lua or modules. Don't expect me to do anything with those.
  • I am not going to start randomly creating templates I think you'll need. If you ask me to import a specific template (or to create the equivalent of some template) that you've seen in another Wikipedia project, I will be happy to try to bring it in here and make sure it is working properly. PLEASE: Only ask me to create the equivalent of templates from English Wikipedia, Simple English Wikipedia or French Wikipedia, because it will be easy for me to understand them. If the only equivalent is in Urdu or Hindi, it will take me too long to unscramble. You'd be much better off asking me for something close, but not quite perfect, from English or French, because I'll get to it faster.
  • At first I'll make sure you have the proper Bodo wording working in your templates. Eventually we should get to a point where I can make sure the template is working properly with English, and you can copy and paste the substituting Bodo words yourself.
If you can accept the help on those terms, then I'll try to help. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:30, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[]

OK, I accepted. thanks --Mr. Nijwmsa Boro (talk) 18:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[]

Double account

Sorry, I thought that you already knew that I have both accounts. I don't know why but I cannot use Katxis any longer from this computer so I decided to enter using this account. In my other computer I use Katxis. How can I show it? Is there a template or something like that? --Chabi (talk) 16:00, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[]

@Chabi, Katxis: I knew you had them both. I didn't know you were using them both. I can import a template from Meta for you to use. Once I've done that I'll post them on your user pages, then you can change them as you like.
I think just to keep things clean—since your advanced user rights here, jamwiki and ladwiki are all on the Katxis account—is that we will call Katxis the primary account, and Chabi the alternate account, even though Chabi is actually older. Is that ok? StevenJ81 (talk) 17:21, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[]
@Chabi, Katxis: What you did on the Chabi1 page is fine. You could also use {{User alternative account}} if you like. I added {{User Alternate Acct Name}} to the Katxis page (under Babel). StevenJ81 (talk) 17:42, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[]
Thanks for your help. I didn't know there was such as template. Will that be fine for me not to be blocked? --Katxis (talk) 18:26, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[]
@Katxis: There wasn't such a template; I just imported it from Meta.
I don't necessarily think you would have been blocked anyway; we usually block people when they're doing this to play tricks. That's not what you were doing.
But since you do have (test-)administrator rights on a number of projects, and even have an RfA currently open (at jamwiki), I think it's better for you to be as transparent as possible about this. I would go ahead and add templates to your pages at Meta and on any other project where you're using more than one account at a time. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:30, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[]
I see. Now I am just working at the Lingua Franca Nova and the Jamaican projects with the Katxis account so I believe it should be fine. Todah --Katxis (talk) 19:04, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[]

English Wiktionary coverage of ASL terms

You mentioned me on Steve Levinski's talk page Wiktionary work on ASL. I do not know if you are in a position to help me on this topic, but I would appreciate any information or contacts you can share.

I had tried to contribute to the development of the Index of ASL terms a few years ago, but I do not know how to automate the compiling of the index. Is it possible to put a tag in a wiki page and have a script run through all such wiki pages to build an index? Otherwise new entries would have to be manually added to any indicies. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Positivesigner (discussioncontribs) 10:02, 23 February 2017 (UTC).[]

Boy, am I the wrong guy to ask! And I'm not entirely sure where to ask someone for help on that.
  • I'm going to copy this over to I:CP and see if anyone lurking there can help.
  • Otherwise, there are help pages on both Meta-Wiki and, and those would be better places to look. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:25, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[]

Bodo language at

Can you ask to enable Bodo language in, I have asked but not enabled yet, so if you can ask, then ask to enable. --👤ⓝⓘⓙⓦⓜ👥тalĸ📨мaιl мe 06:57, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[]

You know perfectly well what it says at translatewiki:Thread:Support/I want to enable Bodo language on by the help of support page. You're just going to have to be patient. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:08, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[]
@ⓝⓘⓙⓦⓜ: That having been said, I looked a little further at the requests that are there. Understand the following:
  1. serves communities more broad than just the Wikimedia community. I can't speak to how some of the language requests outlined in that thread may have importance to a non-Wikimedia project.
  2. Among the language requests that are there that are eligible for subdomain wikis here, there are at least a half-dozen that legitimately have priority ahead of Bodo. There are others that you can be pushed ahead of, though.
I'll help you keep an eye on it, but do understand that yours isn't the only request around. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:07, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[]


@StevenJ81: thank you very much for updates, please enable Khowar Keyboard. Regards-Rehmat Aziz Chitrali Linguist 16:43, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[]
@Rachitrali: I want you to try to run it from your own .js file first. It's located at MediaWiki:Wp/khw/Gadget-khw-phonetic.js. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:45, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81: ok thanks, i'll try this, thanks--Rehmat Aziz Chitrali Linguist 16:49, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[]


@StevenJ81:Please remove wp/bgn and insert wp/khw here [7] the edit option is disable. thanks --Zaheeruddin25 (talk) 02:01, 25 March 2017 (UTC)[]

@Zaheeruddin25: I don't understand what you need from me. I don't see the string wp/bgn anywhere on this page. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:11, 28 March 2017 (UTC)[]

Khowar Wikipedia

@StevenJ81: sir I am very shocked to see this, please check this[8] you reverted back wp/khw from approved to open, what is this? Is this technical mistake? -Rehmat Aziz Chitrali Linguist 13:20, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[]

I suggest you contact User:MF-Warburg, who is on LangCom. It might be best to contact him by email. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:34, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81: Talked to sir MF-Warburg, but invain. Please fix this template[9], the template is very complicated--Rehmat Aziz Chitrali Linguist 13:18, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[]


I don't think it's necessary to add and remove the bot right for mass-deletions. The deletion log is full of mass-deletions anyway, and it just clutters the rights log. Just a personal taste though. --MF-W {a, b} 23:37, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[]

Well, the mass-delete page said to flag myself as a bot. So I did. If you're telling me not to bother, then I won't. Thanks. StevenJ81 (talk) 23:54, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[]
It's actually not to declutter the deletion log, but to prevent cluttering of Recent Changes, where such mass deletion rolls out the regular contributions (fortiori if you have Enhanced RC enabled).
Danny B. 07:13, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[]
@Danny B., MF-Warburg: I guess I could close off this discussion by mentioning that I created a separate bot account to do things like this. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:46, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[]


Shalom. Mah nishmah? I am writing to ask for your help in order to get the Lingua Franca Nova project approved and to get it moved to a Wikipedia. As you can see we have at least three people working on it every day since January. Could you please give us a hand? --Katxis (discusión) 16:07 2 Mar 2017 (UTC)

Hi. Hakol beseder. For the moment, here's what I would suggest:
  • Langcom was a little dormant for a while, and has just started picking up activity again. Understand that before anything more can happen with the LFN project, there is one new project approved that has a Phabricator ticket already (Ws/pa), a second new project approved that needs a few tweaks and then will be exported (Wp/khw), a third test in final review, and at least one other ahead of you in line. So it will take a little time to get you there, even under the best of circumstances.
  • Langcom will want to see three full months of activity by three or more individuals. You'll need to get to the end of March to show that. And given that you were the only substantial contributor in January, they may even want to wait until the end of April.
  • More to the point, though along the same lines: The policy with respect to artificial languages is stricter than the policy with respect to natural languages. There are no "oppose" !votes in your RFL so far, but be prepared to defend the existence of a sufficient body of speakers to make it worth the Foundation's time to approve this.
I think the right timing for this is to check back with me right after Passover and we'll see where we can go. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:22, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[]
Todah rabah for your answer. We will keep on working :) --Katxis (talk) 16:26, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[]
Excellent! Oh, and make sure a decent percentage of your pages are real pages, with reliable sources cited. What Langcom does not want to see is a project that is mostly stubs. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:32, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[]
@Katxis: One more thing. At one point an LFN Wikipedia was rejected, and a project was started at Wikia instead. (It's at wikia:lfn.) Is all the content there included here already? Do you plan to merge the two? Do you have any plans at all for that? Please discuss with the rest of your community. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:57, 13 March 2017 (UTC)[]
We already discussed it. All the articles in there were moved here and that Wikia will keep the dictionary and the texts (i.e. Wiktionary and Wikisource will be together on Wikia). --Katxis (talk) 22:17, 13 March 2017 (UTC)[]

Shalom. Hope you enjoyed Pesach (I didn't have much time this week to congratulate you, so belated Chag Sameach). I wanted to ask you about the approval of the Lingua Franca Nova Wikipedia as the months is almost over. Thanks for your help. --Katxis (talk) 14:05, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[]

Hi, Katxis. We had a nice one, thank you. I hope you did, too.
I can nudge the LangCom a little. But I need to tell you: I set my project to Wp/lfn, then hit ten random pages, and they were all stubs. LangCom is going to be reluctant to approve a project that is all stubs. Try to focus in the next little while on making the pages you have more complete, rather than just creating more stubs. I don't know how long to suggest—another month, maybe. At this point it's not so much "how many pages" or "how many contributors", though you need to keep those things up. It's that LangCom is going to want to see a decent percentage of pages with substantial content. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:13, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[]
Shalom. I would like to ask how is going the approval of the Elefen Wikipedia. We have been adding new information to articles and improving their quality. Could you let us a helping hand, please? Todah --Katxis (talk) 11:10, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[]

Shalom. Just to say Chag sameach on this Shavuot. --Katxis (talk) 21:31, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[]

Same to you!
Your numbers are looking good. There are a couple of other projects ahead of you in queue, but I'll start nudging some people along. (It might not be until after Shabbat, but it will be shortly.) StevenJ81 (talk) 13:36, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[]
Shalom, mah nishmah? I would like to ask how is our project going in the list of approval because I saw that the Atikamekw Wikipedia, with much less articles than ours and whose biggest page is the Main Page, has already been approved. Could you please help us to get our Wikipedia approved? We have been collaborating on a daily basis since January and we have keep adding content to our articles (1,705, so it would rank 224 out of 297). How long do you think we have still to wait? Todah rabah. --Katxis (talk) 22:49, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[]
I've asked LangCom to look at your project. I think you're about there. Let me see if they answer this week; if not, I'll push again. (Atikamekw Wikipedia was strongly supported by Wikimedia Canada, which helped it get moved through quickly.) StevenJ81 (talk) 22:08, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[]
Thank you so much for all your help. We will keep on working hard. --Katxis (talk) 08:16, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[]
Shalom. Ma nishmah? Did you get any answer from the LangCom? --Katxis (talk) 13:33, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[]
Not yet. I'll try them again next week. Shabbat Shalom. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:36, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[]
Shalom. Sorry for bothering you with the same question but, is there any answer from LangCom? How long we will have still to wait to get our Wikipedia approved? --Katxis (talk) 14:19, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[]
I nudged them a bit last week, but they had other items of higher priority. I will nudge them again this week. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:28, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[]
Thank you so much for your help and sorry for bothering you. --Katxis (talk) 18:54, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[]
@Katxis: I should have checked this a while back. Before I go back to LangCom, please go to and be sure that the entire message group "MediaWiki (most used messages)" is entirely translated. That is necessary before project approval. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:59, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[]
They should be fine now. --Katxis (talk) 20:31, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[]
OK. I'll drop them a line tomorrow my time. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:11, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[]
Thank you so much. --Katxis (talk) 21:13, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[]

Note to self

User:Mwnswrang is a probably sock of Mr. Nijwmsa Boro, et al.

Nahuatl languages

Hi Steve; Hydriz (he's Chinese) don't speak and don't understand Nahuatl languages, he don't know Nahuatl languages orthographies, this was a case for delete other articles without Huastec Nahuatl languages orthography; I've got a mistake in Huastec náhuatl orhography; Kuextekapaj is correct, Kuextecapaj is incorrect, this word translated to English is The Huasteca region en:Huasteca. See you.--Marrovi (talk) 17:14, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[]

I edited this guide for people doesn't understand Nahuatl languages (Category:Incubator:Nahuatl languages). --Marrovi (talk) 17:37, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[]
@Marrovi: That wasn't the point at all. The points are simply that:
  • On Incubator, since you have to assume that the administrator does not speak the language—I certainly do not speak any Nahuatl language—you must provide a reason that you want the administrator to delete the page. Otherwise, the administrator does not have a reason to know if the request for deletion is legitimate.
  • It is better if you do not blank out the page and replace it with the {{delete}} template. Just add the delete template, and let the rest of the page sit there. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:35, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[]
I'm editing this list for different variants or languages, is very necessary to know all variants of Nahuatl; I'm working very hard in this case, I defend the native speakers working as activist and as Native speakers friend Wp/nch/Wikipedia:Nahuatl languages/List of words. My native friends don't have time to edit in wikipedia, but I am in contact with them and I try to invite them to use this tools and other tools of cyberspace for the languages of Mexico.--Marrovi (talk) 19:14, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[]
@Marrovi: I'm going to machine-translate what I wrote into Spanish, because you completely ignored what I wrote.
  • En Incubator, ya que tienes que asumir que el administrador no habla el idioma–yo ciertamente no hablo ningún idioma náhuatl–debes proporcionar una razón por la que deseas que el administrador para eliminar la página. De lo contrario, el administrador no tiene una razón para saber si la solicitud de eliminación es legítima.
  • Es mejor si no no deja en blanco la página y reemplácela con la plantilla {{delete}}. Sólo tiene que añadir la plantilla de borrado, y dejar que el resto de la página se sienta allí.
  • No se permite crear páginas en el espacio de nombres de Incubator de esa manera. Esas páginas necesitan ir en el espacio principal. Por ahora puedes usar redirecciones de uno a otro. Lo estoy moviendo a Wp/nch y crear una redirección en Wp/nhn. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:36, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[]



please never, I seriously mean never ever again import with "Include all templates" option. The same applies to exporting from wikis to XML file which can't be transwikied directly.

Such import could (and did in past) break things seriously, not speaking about horrible mess in the history of involved crossed pages, which takes quite a lot of work to cleanup.

Please always import manually only one template in time (including /doc pages if they are really necessary).

Thank you.

Danny B. 20:47, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[]

@Danny B.: You have my solemn promise on that. That was a huge mistake, and it took me a long time to unwind it. I'm not sure I would have been able to do it at all if I hadn't seen some deletion histories you left behind on some unprefixed templates.
The history of a couple of the templates is still pretty crossed. Am I supposed to do something about that? StevenJ81 (talk) 21:31, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[]

From database it is relatively simple to get the list of revisions which should be deleted (not hided, but deleted), but such action has to be done manually, which is quite annoying.

Which templates apart from Tl and Documentation were involved and remained crossed?

Danny B. 21:46, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[]

Just those two and {{notice}}, I think. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:07, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[]

Help please

Hei i want to start pashto incubator can you help me because this has been closed i can make a new site iam administrator in pashto wikipedia also: ) Bl (talk) 20:19, 5 April 2017 (UTC)[]

I don't understand what you want to do here. You're an admin on Pashto Wikipedia. You're contributing on some other tests here, like Pashto Wikinews and Pashto Wikivoyage, as well as to translation of some Incubator pages. So what is it you'd like to do? StevenJ81 (talk) 21:39, 5 April 2017 (UTC)[]


Would you like to learn Nahuatl languages?--Marrovi (talk) 21:16, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[]

Eventually. Not today. For now, "redirects are cheap". So leave them be for now, and send me more of an explanation later. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:17, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[]

Hi Steve, this a good vocabulary about Huastec Nahuatl [10], compiled and made by Dr. Anuschka van't Hooft, it's an interesting work in this language; obviously was written more books. Nahuan communites are in process of wronging about their language.--Marrovi (talk) 18:50, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[]

Is difficult to categorize Náhuatl languages, there are many variants, by in INALI and Ethnologue; Huastec Region is very big, Huastec Nahuatl languages there are may variants as Huastec Puebla, Huastec San Luis Potosí, Huastec Hidalgo and Huastec Veracruz, but all variants are one big language very diferent to Guerrero nahuatl, Durango nahuatl, Central nahuatl, Classical Nahuatl, Southem Puebla, Oaxaca Nahuatl, Tabasco nahuatl, Pipil nahuat, Michoacán náhuatl, other.--Marrovi (talk) 18:50, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[]

I think you should focus your efforts on one or two tests here. And please keep in mind the question of how mutually intelligible these languages are (or are not). If and when you take these projects for approval, the Language Committee—not me, the Language Committee—is going to ask why these cannot be incorporated into Nahuatl Wikipedia. So you'll need to be prepared to justify any project you bring to life. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:49, 10 April 2017 (UTC)[]


Hello, I have just noticed that several articles of the Wiktionary in Algerian Arabic (arq) use as a source a book of Moroccan Arabic (ary): A Dictionary of Moroccan Arabic, Georgetown University Press, Washington, D.C., 2007, here is an example: Wt/arq/اشبار

Would it be possible to rename articles using this reference to the original language, replace arq by ary?

Thank you in advance

Cordially, --Reda benkhadra (talk) 18:41, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[]

Hello, Reda, and thanks for being in touch. I don't think it would be appropriate to rename the articles, exactly, as I will explain. But I think there are things we can do about this, depending on how much you are interested in doing. I'm going to call in @GeekEmad, in case that user would like to comment.
  • Why it's not appropriate to rename the article. The purpose of having a source like that is to provide a reliable attestation for use of the word. If the word is identical in (some) different varieties of Arabic, then a source like this is about as good for attesting a word usage in Algerian Arabic as in Moroccan Arabic. The only time it wouldn't be appropriate is if you would make the claim that this attestation is not valid in Algerian Arabic, I think. (And I suspect that such attestations between Maghrebi neighbors like Algeria and Morocco are probably going to be inherently more common than, say, cross-attestations from a Mashriqi variety of Arabic.)
  • Nature of test projects. Each of the test projects here operates as autonomously as we can possibly allow. Therefore, a test project like Algerian Arabic Wiktionary is allowed, within broad boundaries, to make its own decisions about what rules and sources to allow. What's more: What they create belongs to them. So if I were to move your page from Wt/arq/اشبار to Wt/ary/اشبار, I'd essentially be stealing their content and giving it to a different test. And that's not fair to the users who have been working hard on the Wt/arq project. If you think that project should not be using this source, you really need to take it up with that project's community, usually on the talk page of the main page of the project (in this case, Talk:Wt/arq/الپاجة الاولانيّة).
The Incubator administrators will not usually intervene in such matters unless important core Wikimedia policies are being violated. With one exception, someone like you that is active around WMF will know these core policies. The only core policy that is really an Incubator-specific one, so that you might not be familiar with it, is that all test projects must be connected to languages with valid language codes. That's not a problem with arq or ary.
We do jump in with certain "ministerial" interventions, especially if a test has no "test-administrator". But those interventions are always non-controversial; they are mostly (a) page deletions, (b) appropriate imports from other wikis, and (c) reversal of large-scale vandalism disruptions. We also sometimes do housekeeping on tests that have gone dormant.
  • What you can do if you want: You are certainly welcome to begin a test Wiktionary in Moroccan Arabic at Wt/ary. Once you do that, you are welcome to copy any pages from the Algerian project that you would like. (In other words, you can duplicate Wt/arq/اشبار at Wt/ary/اشبار if you'd like.) We only ask that if you do so, please note that you copied the page from Wt/arq either in the edit summary or on the talk page.
Alternatively, if you think that Moroccan and Algerian Arabic are very similar to each other (and en:Algerian Arabic reports that they are mutually intelligible), you could ask the Algerian Arabic project community if it would be willing to broaden the scope to include Moroccan Arabic as more of a "Maghrebi Arabic Wiktionary". If the community were agreeable, then I would put a template at Wt/aly directing people to contribute to Wt/alq. But that is the community's decision, not mine.
I hope this fairly long-winded explanation has made sense. Please feel free to ask any further questions you may have. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:24, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[]
Hello, I'm happy to share my opinion on the subject. First, let me say that I am actually a Tunisian. However, since Tunisian, Algerian, and Moroccan dialects are mutually intelligible, without any clear linguistic dividing line between them, I decided to work on a Maghrebi Wiktionary rather than a Tunisian one.
"“Algerian Arabic” is a name of convenience applied to the Maghrebi Arabic dialect continuum spoken across Algeria, whose speakers are in large part descended from speakers of Berber. There is no clear linguistic dividing line between Algeria and Morocco to the west or Tunisia to the east. Despite being absent from school curriculums and rarely if ever written, Algerian Arabic is the primary lingua franca of Algeria; most of the Berber-speaking minority are fluent in it, while very few Arabic speakers learn Berber." - Lameen Souag
I chose the Algerian Wiktionary because the dialects in Algeria are so diverse: the eastern ones sound like Tunisian, the western ones sound like Moroccan dialects, and the Sahrawi ones are more like southern Tunisian dialects or Libyan ones. However, I stopped working on this project currently, because there is no agreement on the script to use, some people prefer to use the Arabic script, while others support en:Berber Latin alphabet because it makes reading easier and it distinguishes all the sounds of the language. Dominque Caubet, for instance, supports a "bi-script" system (an etymological Arabic orthography and a phonetic Latin one, although she didn't support Berber Latin alphabet in particular).
I thought that the same idea should be applied for Wikipedia. A Maghrebi Wikipedia will have more users and contributors, hence a richer content than three local Wikipedias. Furthermore, a literary Maghrebi Arabic language already exists in the form of Melhun, Chaabi, and Malouf. Thank you. --GeekEmad (talk) 21:16, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[]


@StevenJ81: why these 16 pages shown as unprefixed?Category:Wp/khw/Pages using unprefixed templates --Rehmat Aziz Chitrali Linguist 15:20, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[]

@Rachitrali: Using Wp/khw/2016ء آئی سی سی عالمی ٹی ٹوئینٹی as an example, it tries to call the unprefixed template {{Reflist}}. Instead, it should call the prefixed template {{Wp/khw/Reflist}}. (Note that you are also calling unprefixed phantom templates like {{Align}}; I'd recommend creating prefixed templates like {{Wp/khw/Align}} for that purpose.) Each of the 16 pages has something like that going on, though not all maybe calling the particular unprefixed template {{Reflist}}. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:11, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[]
PS: Note how I redid the link to your category. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:11, 16 April 2017 (UTC)>[]


You gave a comment on Wy/hi/विकियात्रा:सहायता that it is not necessary to delete. Since "विकियात्रा" is not a established namespace, so I think we can delete this page.☆★Sanjeev Kumar (✉✉) 15:26, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[]

@संजीव कुमार: If the community wishes to have the page deleted, I will delete the page. The explanation I was given by the person who tagged the page is that it might not be correctly named and might not be incomplete. I replied that in that case, the page should be completed and moved to its proper location, not deleted. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:29, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[]
@संजीव कुमार: See also User talk:स#Deletion request for Wy/hi/विकियात्रा:सहायता. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:48, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[]

administrator in Doteli Wikipedia

please I have made thee administrator in Doteli Wikipedia. Because there is very bad editing to Doteli wiki. Ramesh S.Bohara(✉✉) 16:31, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[]

@Ramesh S.Bohara: I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Could you tell me what help you need? StevenJ81 (talk) 16:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[]

Thank You

Thank you for all the special things you do for Doteli wiki. Hats up! --Janak Bhatta (talk) 16:44, 27 April 2017 (UTC) & Doteli Wikimedians family.[]

@Janak Bhatta: My pleasure; glad I could help out. Good luck with your new wiki, and keep the community active! StevenJ81 (talk)

Your opinion about the writing script

Hello, in the last two or three years, I've been working with people from Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco, on writing Darja or Maghrebi Arabic. Those people have completely different opinions on the writing system, especially when it comes to standardizing the Latin script orthography. And since you are actively working with Ladino language, I hope you can give me your suggestions.

There two options, the Latin script and the Arabic script. Any orthography should minimize regional variations because many people don't think that Maghrebi is language due to the lack of consistency between regions

  • The Latin script: originally a modified French orthography. Today, it is used daily by millions of native speakers for SMS, chatting, posting on social media websites, forums, and in advertisements. It is however not suitable for the language and it makes understanding hard because it doesn't distinguish emphatic consonants.
    • There is the possibility of using Berber Latin alphabet, although it is not known by the majority of speakers. It was originally made in a way to minimize regional differences between Berber dialects. The same differences exist in Maghrebi
  • Arabic script: usually etymological. To write a word, you have to know its etymology, thus making writing a harder task.
    • There is the possibility of simplifying the orthography. KtbDarija is an extreme example of that.

As you see, whatever the option is, it would be new and strange to the people. In my opinion, I thought the Latin script is the best option since Berber, the second native language of the Maghreb, is already using it. Furthermore, in the 90s, it was possible to choose Maghrebi as an optional language in French Bac. Most students chose the Latin script. I should also mention the Maghrebi speakers in Israel who won't have the chance to read Maghrebi if it is written in Arabic script. Something else I thought about is that using the Arabic script won't allow Maghrebi Arabic to enter fields such as Mathematics and Physics (expressions use Latin script). The Arabic language itself isn't used to teach sciences in the Maghreb. What do you think? --GeekEmad (talk) 16:04, 6 May 2017 (UTC)[]

Hi, GeekEmad. I need to give this a little thought. But to do that I need to ask you a couple of different sets of questions, in no particular order (and actually interrelated):
  1. Which test project(s) are you thinking about applying this to? This matters for a couple of different reasons.
    If you're thinking about applying this to an active test project like Wp/arq, you probably need to stop and consider what the majority of people want to use, or (in that case) what the principal organization behind the test (fr:Université Hassiba Benbouali de Chlef), might want to use. You may not be a free agent to make the standardization choice.
    Might the choice of writing system change depending on whether your focus is Morocco, Algeria, or Tunisia?
  2. In the broader world, is there a writing system that would be considered the common, ordinary writing system for Maghrebi Arabic? The Wikimedia Foundation does not want to be creating such things from scratch; rather, it wants to use the systems that are considered standard and customary already.
    In a related way: If the script you use will be Arabic, is there really going to be a different orthography just because (for example) there is no glottal stop in Maghrebi? Or is the common approach that things are written in more-or-less standard Arabic, and simply pronounced differently? (This doesn't mean there is no place for a Maghrebi project, because there are vocabulary differences; my question is simply about whether one would normally abandon standard writing approaches where appropriate.)
Once you've answered those questions, I'll give it some further thought. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:07, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[]
Hello StevenJ81 and thank you for your answer.
  1. I want to work on a beneficial project for the language and the people. Wikipedia isn't really that needed currently since anyone with a basic knowledge of how to use the computer can understand Arabic and French. My objective is Wiktionary and Wikiquote. By the way, Wp/arq doesn't seem to have one particular orthography. Both Latin and Arabic are used with a lot of variations. It's different from Standard Arabic but it keeps the unpronounced phonemes. TL;DR: Wiktionary and Wikiquote + Other non-wiki projects.
  2. The choice of the orthography might slightly change depending on the country.
    For the Arabic script: while ڨ is used in Tunisia and Algeria, ڭ is more common in Morocco. In Melḥun, both are used depending on the etymology of the word. Furthermore, the phonemes /ð/ and /θ/ are very inconsistent between dialects. However, they are generally more common in Tunisia and eastern Algeria and less common or nonexistent in Morocco and western Algeria. Nevertheless, they are always written, even in Morocco. TL;DR: No.
    For the Latin script: /ð/ and /θ/ will have to be either distinguished from /d/ and /t/ or not. In Tunisia for example, they would be distinguished, since Tunis dialect conserves them in all positions (in my dialect, however, they are more inconsistent). There is also the problem of writing schwa in trilateral nouns such as wejh/wjeh. In this example, both pronunciations are common in Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco. However, wejh is used in Tunis dialect, so it would be the standard form and wjeh is more common in Morocco, so it would be the standard form there. The schwa is also problematic in word such as mektba/mekketba/maketba/meketba/mketba. The 1st is common in Tunisia, the 2nd in Algeria, the 3rd and 4th in Bedouin dialects, and the 5th is common in Morocco. If I chose to write for all of the Maghreb, I would drop the schwa and use a neutral form such as mktba, which is a usual way to write the word in the Latin script. TL;DR: Yes.
  3. The only form of written literature available in Maghrebi Arabic are some novels and Christian religious books in the Arabic script and a big forgotten Melhun tradition. The novels use Standard Arabic orthography and Melhun uses its own half-etymological half-phonemic orthography that uses the Maghrebi letters (ڢ ڧ ک ی ڨ ڭ ڥ ڜ). Today, aside from ڨ ڭ ڥ and ک (handwriting only), the Maghrebi letters are generally unknown to people. So, considering that and the fact that the society is diglossic, with Arabic being the high language, the most natural way to write a book (but not to text someone or to write a comment on a Facebook post) is the Arabic script. Be aware here that other people might mock you if you decide to write phonemically rather than etymologically. That is, you should never write لاكن instead of لكن. TL;DR: mostly the Arabic script for printed literature.
  4. And to your final question, it is possible to write in Standard Arabic orthography and try guessing the correct pronunciation of words in Maghrebi. To be honest, old dictionaries from the colonial era written in Classical Arabic orthography are hard to read. For example, short stressed vowels in open syllables in Classical Arabic become full/long vowels in Maghrebi. Hence, رَجُل is pronounced راجل and خُذ is pronounced خوذ. (I said earlier that using a phonemic spelling is not tolerated, however, strangely, writing these words phonemically is accepted). Dropping the glottal stop and dropping the difference between short and long vowels completely changes the structure of the word and you have to choose between just not writing the Hamza or changing all the final vowels. For instance, the verb قَرَأَ becomes قرا, but the final /a/ becomes /i/ when conjugated with the first singular personal pronoun, so the verb is قريت rather than قرات from Classical Arabic قَرَأَتْ, which means that the root of the verb is QRY rather than QR'. Therefore, the verb قرا should be written قرى. Both spellings are used in Maghrebi. Another example is زَرقَاء which becomes زرقا or زرقة. Both have the exact pronunciation, however, people who can figure out the word's etymology use the former spelling, those who don't, use the latter spelling. One final example is بُكَاء which becomes بكا or بكى. To avoid all this mess (I didn't even mention the Alif Maqsura or the Ta Marbuta), some might advocate using one final letter for /a/ regardless of the etymology. TL;DR: if you can figure out the etymology, you will probably spell the word etymologically.
--GeekEmad (talk) 21:51, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[]
PS: I wanted to mention that most of Maghrebi technical terminology is European. Computers use French and you rarely see an interface from right to left. One of my objectives is making technology reachable to more people. Before, I feared that writing Maghrebi in Arabic script and translating the OS interface to Maghrebi won't gain any success. Not just the OS, but also popular websites such as Facebook and Twitter. It's a hard decision to make. Uh, and I should mention something else: the language used in Melhun is pure Maghrebi. That is, you don't find any new Arabic loanwords and even if you do, it usually follows Maghrebi phonology rules. The common Maghrebi is different since everyone has to study Arabic the first year at school. What happens is that unless you learned the word outside of school, you will retain the original Arabic pronunciation. Words like frisa would be pronounced farisa and words like (e)ɛ(e)tbar would be pronounced (i)ɛtibar. People won't pay attention to those differences when the Arabic script is used because those vowels are not written (short vowels in Arabic). In the Latin script, however, it is a different story. --GeekEmad (talk) 22:11, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[]
I guess one other question here: If you were to allow both Latin and Arabic script—I don't think I'd add in Berber, honestly—would there be a one-to-one correspondence, such that you could create a transliteration tool? Look at, for example, wikt:ku: for an example of how that could work.
My experience with Ladino—and I came to it long after the rules were already set up there—are pretty basic: Within reason, people can use whatever consistent orthography they want. Accordingly, we have four versions of the home page—three in lad-latn and one in lad-hebr (which does have a more-or-less standard orthography). We have at least one page in four different lad-latn orthographies.[1] And as long as our project is small, and we're really desperate for contributors, we would rather let people do what they will. About the only limitation that I have been enforcing is this: If we have a developed lad-latn article on a subject, I won't allow a stub in a second lad-latn orthography; there's no point to it. We cannot use an automatic transliteration tool, so to see how we handle all of this, have a look at lad:Meksiko and its analogues (click the tabs).
I'm going to think a little more on how this should apply to Wiktionary and Wikiquote projects, and write more tomorrow. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:52, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[]


  1. For the record, one is based on medieval Spanish orthography, one based on French, one based on Turkish and one for Haketia, the Moroccan variant, which is related to, but not the same as, the French-based orthography.
Converting from Arabic to Latin is impossible. However, the opposite is only possible if the Arabic orthography was phonemic (like KtbDarija). That's because the final /a/ can have at least three corresponding letters in the Arabic script.
It seems that you positively deal with spelling variations. Should I have the same attitude concerning regional variations or should I try to popularize a standard? I gave the example of mektba/mektba/mekketba/maketba before. All of them are understood by everyone, so should I accept this variation? (in Wiktionary?) --GeekEmad (talk) 23:45, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[]

Further thoughts on Wiktionary

I've been thinking a lot about this. And I'm thinking that in your Wiktionary, you'd want to design pages along the following lines:

  • Page name/dictionary entry/lemma—Obviously, the entry point. I'm imagining that in your world, as a rule, people would normally try to look up a word according to a standard Arabic spelling, except (a) for technical terms, which would use either a Latin spelling or actually use French, (b) borrowed words commonly spelled otherwise, or (c) unusual exceptions highly specific to the Maghreb (local dishes, for example). So I would probably organize the dictionary that way, with most words' pages in standard Arabic, and some words' pages otherwise as indicated above. Since redirects are cheap, you can add redirects from any Latin-script (or non-standard Arabic script) version you think is really likely to be a lookup term.
  • Alternative spellings—I'd put this next, even before the table of contents. See Wt/lad/לינגוה/לינגואה, where I cobbled up an example based on Wt/lad/לינגוה, but moving the alternative spellings, and translating the headings into English so that you could navigate the page. You can have whatever alternative spellings you want here, both Arabic and Latin (and Berber, if you really want). Perhaps color-code (and/or font-family-code) different spelling conventions—maybe red for Moroccan, green for Algerian, blue for Tunisian, purple for Melḥun, etc. About the only restriction I'd place is that you must include any spelling here for which you decided to create a redirect (other than a redirect for a common misspelling). Note that my Ladino Wiktionary actually has pages at Wt/lad/lengua and Wt/lad/lingua, too. I'm thinking that you don't need to do that most of the time.
  • Pronunciation—My test page doesn't do this, but you can easily add it, using both IPA and more phonemic Arabic/Latin spellings, perhaps color- or font-coding them the same way as above.
  • Definitions and Translations—probably written in standard Arabic, except to the extent that there is an appropriately different way to write it out for a Maghrebi audience. You can possibly write this in both Arabic script and Latin script along the lines of lad:Vedradera Kilisia de Yeshu, but the page construction syntax is complicated.

Unless I'm wrong in thinking that people would tend to look up words as written in standard Arabic, I think an approach similar to this will maximize the usefulness of your Wiktionary. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:07, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[]

[a quick comment before going out]: Can you give me an example of the form Page name/dictionary entry/lemma? Is the dictionary entry supposed to be in Standard Arabic and the lemma in the other spelling systems?
There are dictionaries in both Arabic and Latin script (two or three in Arabic and the rest are in Latin > 5), but people do not know about that so they don't use it (they don't have a reason to). As for Standard Arabic dictionaries, there is a lack in modern Arabic dictionaries, so you don't usually use one 🤷. --GeekEmad (talk) 16:46, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[]
No, "page name" = "dictionary entry" = "lemma": Three terms for the same thing. Apologies for the confusion. I would think it would usually be in Standard Arabic. My main point is: use the version that people will likely use (or would find easiest to use) in order to find a word in the first place. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:50, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[]
Oh, I see. I have a question, does the conversion tool produce an editable page? Because a conversion is possible, although will take some time. The beta version will be able to make a one to one conversion. If this result isn't desirable by the community (I did a vote in a group about Algerian Arabic, not many people participated but the result is that the majority supports dropping final Ta Marbuta and Alif Maqsura to replace them with a normal Alif. The majority also supported Latin script > Arabic script > Both at the same time) we can start adding an exception for specific cases, word by word. If editing the converted pages is possible, then we can stop there. PS. This seems to work better on projects such as Wikipedia and Wikiquote.
There is an online corpus for Tunisian Arabic Tunisiya, the content isn't 100% Tunisian. It is mixed with Standard Arabic and French. I can use this corpus to decide for a way to spell words in Arabic or just a general guideline/recommendation (e.g. drop the Hamza).
So, the way arq/Wt should work is this: main entry is in Standard Arabic (or CODA orthography or the most common spelling), the second main entry is in Latin script, on each page, we give all common alternative spellings (a list of possible alternative spellings for each case can be added on Wiktionary help page), the oldest or the Maghribized form is the main one, the IPA pronunciations are given with a lot of details, the definitions are in Arabic or Maghrebi, else an example is obligatory (the way old Arabic dictionaries define a word is different from the way Oxford dictionary, for example, does), use redirects when needed, allow spelling variations (e.g. both ṭfol and ṭfel would be accepted), add translation to another language.
Once the Wiktionary test project becomes an official project, I think we can develop more advanced bots to take care of all the redirects and alternative spellings. I think AWB shouldn't be used currently.
For other projects, such as Wikipedia, having articles in the two scripts should be allowed. One problem now is the writing direction. A long time ago, the writing direction was changed from LTR to RTL because it was assumed that the valid script for Algerian/Tunisian/Moroccan is Arabic. Is it possible to implement a tool to automatically detect the script and set the writing direction? --GeekEmad (talk) 17:59, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[]
I forgot the ask something, if I wanted to add words to English Wiktionary too, which writing system can be used? And considering that most of the vocabulary is not restricted to one country, do I have to keep adding three entries for every word? --GeekEmad (talk) 18:08, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[]
It looks like sometimes different-scripts can be edited, and sometimes not. See m:Wikipedias in multiple writing systems. What I truly don't know is if you can change back-and-forth arbitrarily within a page, or whether any given page goes in one direction only. You'd have to ask someone involved with those transliteration tools. I never pursued that on ladwiki, because a transliteration tool was just not really feasible for us.
For LTR/RTL, I suspect there's a way to do it, but I sure don't know how, and I have no idea how easy it would be to do. You'd probably have to ask someone at Phabricator, or someone at one of those multiple-script wikis.
  • The easiest thing to do is set up templates like I did at lad:Template:RTL top and lad:Template:RTL bottom (you'd do the opposite, of course!). And that would have the advantage of automatically porting correctly into an approved project. And if you have this gadget activated: Directional editing control script, it becomes very easy to edit correctly regardless of the nominal direction of the wiki.
There are some other possibilities for this, but I can't really recommend them right now. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:16, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[]
I'm going to discuss the subject then with the other contributors. I might succeed in inviting Moroccans to help making one Wiktionary. What about adding words to the English Wiktionary? Which script can I use? And which language code should I use? --GeekEmad (talk) 21:47, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[]
Oops. That got lost. I suggest talking to someone more familiar with the rules and practices of English Wiktionary. Check with wikt:User:Wikitiki89 first. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:00, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[]

Your opinion and suggestions

Bonjour StevenJ81. I would like your opinion and suggestions about Wp/atj. As you may know, we had a grant for Atikamekw project, which I'm drafting a blog post, and currently under review by WMF blog team. Also, with few Atikamekw people, we will do a panel session at Wikimania Montreal 2017.

The Atikamekw people wish to launch their Wikipetia for National Aboriginal Day (June 21st) which is maybe unrealistic(?), that's why I would like your opinion/suggestions. On June 1st, we will travel to Atikamekw community and I would like to tell them the truth and manage their expectations. I know the approval of a test wiki is a long term process, but I would like your advice to bring Wp/atj to the next level. Wikimedia's most important messages are translated, catanalysis test wiki activity looks good, and there are over 300 articles.

Thank you in advance for your help. (PS: will we see you in Montreal for Wikimania?). Best regards. Benoit Rochon (talk) 14:37, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[]

@Benoit Rochon: Bonjour, monsieur le président. J'ai quelques idées.
The approval isn't necessarily the slow part, and there are reasons to believe that approval could be speeded up, especially because of the support of Wikimedia Canada. It is a trickier thing to get the approved wiki up and running promptly, because the process is mostly run by volunteers, who may or may not have time when you need it. That said, let me give you a couple of suggestions as to how to accelerate the approval process.
  • Make sure your collaborators continue to participate in the test project. The May participation is weak so far; LangCom will want to see at least three participants with at least ten edits each.
  • Please continue to translate the message group MediaWiki messages. Messages will not start to be transferred from over to the Wikimedia wikis until 13% of this group is translated. This means that as things stand right now, the content of an approved atj Wikipedia would be in Atikamekw, but the interface would be in the backup language. (BTW: Should that be fr or en? You'll need to specify that.) Translation of messages in that group is more important than any other translation your team could do right now.
I'm not sure that the developers will even create the wiki under those circumstances. We have one test here, Wp/kbp, that is technically approved, but that is "stalled" at phabricator pending more message translation.
  • Of your 300 articles, can you give me an honest assessment of how many are stubs and how many have some significant content? I just went to ten random pages in Wp/atj, and only one of the ten was even arguably not a stub. The LangCom will want to see that some of the pages have real content in them.
  • I see you have some academic experts on your team. They will need to certify to LangCom that this language is correct, accurate, etc. Please have them ready to do so.
Let me package all of the above for you in priority order.
Priorities for your team of contributors/editors
  1. Get at least 100–150 pages up from "stub" status to the status of "real articles with content" (equivalent of Start-class in enwiki, or statut-BD in frwiki), preferably including some sources.
  2. Translate as far as possible the MediaWiki messages group
  • These two items take complete priority over page creation for right now
Priorities for you personally, WM Canada, and your grant partners
  • Make commitments that if the test project gets approved quickly, both WM Canada and the partners, including the Atikamekw Nation, and preferably including academic partners, will remain committed to building the Atikamekw Wikipedia over at least the next couple of years. That is the single most important thing you could do to make sure the test project gets approved, even if some of the other requirements are only borderline sufficient.
As far as Wikimania goes, I truly wish I could come. Montreal is pretty close to where I live (NJ), in the overall scheme of things. Et, toujours, j'aime pratiquer mon français, qui n'est pas facile chez moi. But I had a bereavement leave earlier this year, I have to reserve remaining vacation days for Jewish holidays this fall, and as an Orthodox Jew I can't even drive up on Friday night for the last two days. So, regretfully, I will not be there. However, if the session ends up streamed online, I'd certainly try to carve out an hour to attend it remotely (if not Friday night or Saturday). Let me know. A bientôt. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:17, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[]

Bonjour Steven. Thank you for your advice. Blog post has been published by WMF. Also Radio-Canada did an interview about Atikamekw project. It's really cool how things are going well. Now I want to give you a clear overview where we are, since they announced at Radio-Canada that Wikipetia Atikamekw will be launch on 21 June... so I really wish we/they can do it.
  • Three participants with at least ten edits each   Done
  • Translatewiki Most important messages   Done
  • Translatewiki MediaWiki messages (13%)   Done
  • Messages transferred from over to the Wikimedia wikis   Done
  • Fallback language is French   Done
  • 100-150 real articles with content. to be done
  • Translate as far as possible the MediaWiki messages group. to be done
Now, to who (or where) WMCA & partners make commitments? And to who (or where) the techno-linguists certify to LangCom that this language is correct, accurate, etc.
Espérons vous voir à Wikimania, je vous accueillerai personnellement ! Cordialement, Benoit Rochon (talk) 17:04, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[]
@Benoit Rochon: I wish you hadn't given them that date, although for all I know that will push LangCom faster than they might otherwise move.   I've added a comment at m:Talk:Language committee#Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Atikamekw. I suggest you go there and comment that you are ready to assist LangCom in any way that you can. We'll then wait until this weekend to see if there are replies from LangCom; if not, you should email directly to the LangCom mailing list. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:25, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[]
I haven't give a date, nor hope. When we last met in february, an atikamekw said it would be great to have Wikipetia-atj out of incubator on the First Nation day, and other people around the table agreed. But I was clear that maybe it wouldn't be that easy since there's a lot of work to do. So they know that might not happen... and when I heard that date on Radio-Canada, I told myself... WOW, we must delivre now! I'm sorry for the trouble. I will send a message as suggested after yours. Thank you for everthing. Benoit Rochon (talk) 21:00, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[]
@Benoit Rochon: Tu dois comprendre: Nous aurons de très bonne chance si le projet sera approuvé le 21 juin. Je doute fortement que le projet sera exporté à avant du 21 juin. Si WMF soit une agence gouvernementale du Canada, peut-être, car le gouvernement Canadien veut satisfaire une Première Nation. Mais ce n'est pas le vrai monde, hélas. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:12, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[]

Ladino dolomitico

Grazie per il benvenuto. Ne approfitto per dirti che in collaborazione con l'Università di Bolzano Bressanone stiamo provvedendo a caricare oltre 400 testi nei vari idiomi del ladino dolomitico su Wikisource (provvisoriamente su quella italiana) in attesa di creare una Wikisource nelle lingue reto-romanze. Sempre provvisoriamente abbiamo caricato anche molti testi in romancio. Per Wikipedia c'è già una WP in lingua romancia, mentre per il ladino dolomitico c'è solo un tentativo, da anni fermo su Incubator. Ti dico anche che Wikimedia svizzera sta partecipando ad un bando dell'Unione europea Interreg Italia-Svizzera con un progetto LINGUALP Anche se non si dovesse vincere nulla, è però l'occasione di coinvolgere gli abitanti delle valli ladine e romance per tentare un rilancio di WP e di Wikisource nelle lingue retoromanze. Ogni tuo suggerimento sarebbe prezioso. -Mizardellorsa (talk) 15:47, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[]

[Traduzione di Google Translate:Sono it-1 or it-0]
@Mizardellorsa: Il luogo normale per posizionare i test di Wikisource è nel vecchio (o multilingue) Wikisource. E vedo che Romancio ha documenti in Wikisource italiano e Wikisource multilingue. Tutti i documenti di Wikisource in entrambe le lingue dovrebbero essere su Wikisource Multilingual, a oldwikisource:Category:Rumantsch e oldwikisource:Category:Ladin. (Il secondo non esiste ancora, ma puoi creare.)
Non c'è dubbio che Ladin avrà diritto a ottenere un Wikipedia. L'unico modo per farlo entrare nel proprio sottodominio è creare contenuti e reclutare una comunità. Vedere m:Language proposal policy/it.
Buona fortuna! StevenJ81 (talk) 18:20, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[]
Grazie Steven. Sapevo che i testi in romancio sarebbe dovuti essere caricati su oldwikisource, ma c'è stato bisogno dell'aiuto della comunità in lingua italiana che tecnicamente è molto preparata e disponibile, per caricare in formato .djvu i 14 volumi della Rätoromanische chrestomathie che è un'opera ciclopica di oltre 10.000 pagine. A destra della pagina c'è il .pdf e a sinistra si è iniziata la trascrizione dei testi. Il caricamento dei volumi è a buon punto. Sicuramente è più facile operare su wikisource dove basta saper fare il copia-incolla e riuscire a leggere qualche riga, mentre scrivere negli idiomi delle singole vallate è qualche cosa che lo può fare solo chi ci è nato. La speranza è che se va avanti il progetto Lingualp si riescano a coinvolgere gli abitanti dei luoghi. La speranza lo ripeto c'è. Speriamo di aver fortuna! -Mizardellorsa (talk) 19:13, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[]
Fintanto che la comunità italiana di Wikisource non importa di avere i contenuti in esso, non è veramente un problema. Penso di aggiungere un puntatore da oldwikisource a Wikisource italiano per ora. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:46, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[]
Ti ringrazio per aver contribuito a creare oldwikisource:Category:Ladin. Ho cominciato a caricare la prima ventina di testi e poi, a poco, a poco, diventeranno molti di più. La proposta è di arrivare poi u un unica Wikisource in lingue retoromanze, perchè i locutori di ladino e romancio tra di loro si capiscono senza bisogno di traduzione. L'obiettivo finale è la formazione di un gruppetto di contributori madrelingua ladina dolomitica e romancia anche per Wikipedia.--Mizardellorsa (talk) 20:12, 28 May 2017 (UTC)[]
@Mizardellorsa: Prego. Naturalmente non parlo italiano e non parlo né Romansch né Ladino. Ma sarò lieto di provare a fornire qualunque aiuto tecnico che posso. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:14, 29 May 2017 (UTC)[]

Answer at the discussion of Steven J81

Moved back to User talk:Leonardo José Raimundo#Your user pages


Hi StevenJ81, the last 6 months were busy and sometimes it was difficult, and maybe we were somewhat impatient with the LangCom. But I think Wikinews is one of the hardest projects to maintain, because time-pressure to publish. But it has always been a fun time. And also thanks to you who helped us well with all sorts of things. I really appreciate that help! The motivation is getting bigger with the day and there is a positive atmosphere inside the community. There is still much work to do after this, we have also introduced a project page, to improve the quality of the project. There is already one member who wants to be an administrator, I'm considering it, I have to think about it. How many administrators are needed in the beginning? With Wikinews I got to know the Incubator, and I saw some interesting projects in other languages. So probably I will come back again, but first I need to know the language better. Livenws (talk) 22:02, 28 June 2017 (UTC)[]

@LIVE NIEUWS: I was delighted to be able to help such a strong and active community. Good luck as you transition to your new wiki, and we'll look forward to seeing you back here at some point. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:19, 29 June 2017 (UTC)[]

How to become the formal version?

I am now working at Mandarin Chinese (Wp/cmn) Wikipedia test version so I am wondering how could the test version becomeger a formal one? Numbers of articles and users?--Asd1346 (talk) 14:14, 8 July 2017 (UTC)[]

@Asd1346: Thank you for asking. I'll give you a dry recitation of such requirements. But then I'm going to tell you that there are substantial complications in this particular case, and I'm inclined to think you ought to try to get some formal resolution of those complications from the Language Committee before you spend a lot more time on the test.
First, the basic rules. There is no particular minimum number of pages, and in fact certain projects that have backing from Wikimedia chapters around the world can be approved with surprisingly few mainspace pages. See, for example, Wp/atj >> atj:, an indigenous language of Canada, which was approved with only 332 mainspace articles, about half of which were stubs. But Wikimedia Canada had a lot of reasons to want it to be approved, and has committed to keep the work going on it for the next several years, so it wasn't hard to say yes. Under normal circumstances, a number greater than 500, and often closer to 1,000 pages, is more in line with general expectations. And certainly enough of the pages need not to be stubs that people feel there is real content there. So figure half stubs is the maximum you can get away with, but the fewer, the better, please.
To be approved, a project needs to have a regular community of contributors. That means, in practice, that there must be three contributors having at least ten edits each over a period of at least three months, and then continuing beyond that until the time of approval. You certainly don't meet that requirement; go to Wp/cmn and click on the link marked "Check test wiki activity". You're not even close on this.
There is also a requirement for localization of the interface into the language at But since your ability to do that will depend in part on the complications in this case, let me turn to those now.
Obviously, what you have here isn't just "the Mandarin Chinese Test Wikipedia". After all, Chinese Wikipedia is written in Mandarin. What you are trying to create here is a Wikipedia in the Pinyin transcription of Mandarin Chinese. And that's not quite the same thing, for a variety of reasons. On the whole, the Language Committee feels that there should not be more than one Wikipedia project in a given language. And the fact that the language is written in more than one script doesn't make it a separate language. Even Chinese Wikipedia optionally uses both traditional and simplified characters, and several other projects have automatic script converters. (See Wikipedias in multiple writing systems on Meta.) When the original m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Chinese (Pinyin) was closed ten years ago, it was closed on procedural grounds. But there was a belief that Pinyin would be better served with an automatic script converter. And let's face it: if such a converter could be implemented, you would all of a sudden have a Wikipedia of just under a million pages, all available in Pinyin. It would take you years to build that from scratch.
So to get your test project approved, you'd first have to convince the Language Committee, and possibly the WMF Board, that this project has a value that could not be met any other way. It is not my place to say whether that is true or not true, but I strongly suspect that you will have a hard time making that case.
I'm sure that's not really what you wanted to hear, but I wanted to be honest with you. Still, I will help you as I can. So if you have any other questions, or want some further guidance, let me know. StevenJ81 (talk) 04:53, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[]

I believe that it's common for many westerners to consider that Mandarin equals to Chinese because Mandarin is the mightiest Chinese dialect in modern China; however, in many regions in China and Taiwan, Chinese (namely chinese characters) may also be read characters by characters in other Chinese dialects like Cantonese (in Hongkong), Hokkien and Hakka (in ancient and some areas in modern Taiwan). Although such written language does not meet the vernaculars (spoken languages) of Cantonese (yue), Hokkien (nan) or Hakka (hak), intellectuals in different areas can still write, read and understand Chinese articles with their own languages (dialects). So it's much more correct to look Chinese (zh) as the common written language for the users of different dialects, and Guanhua (cmn) as the spoken language in Northern China. And I think that's the point why someone establish this test project. Still, thanks for your answering.--Asd1346 (talk) 05:49, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[]

That's a fair point. But if the common written language is understandable to all, then from the point of view of a primarily written project like this, doesn't the written project zh Wikipedia meet most of the needs? (I ask honestly. I know there are a few different Wikipedias in different vernaculars. I don't necessarily understand why, if everyone can read zh Wikipedia.)
But then: (a) leaving aside Pinyin for a moment, what content would be in Guanhua that would not or could not be in Chinese Wikipedia? (b) Why Pinyin, as opposed to Chinese characters (or multiscript)?
In any case, my job, such as it is here, is to help you create content, and I will do that. But I bring all this to your attention because I wouldn't want you to create 500 pages of content, and then discover that LangCom doesn't see value in your test. StevenJ81 (talk) 06:11, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[]
Most of those different Wikipedias are written in their vernaculars, not in "written languages" (sounds like the relationships between Nynorsk and Bokmål). In the history, these dialects also create their own vernacular written systems, and the common written language was Classical Chinese (lzh) at that time. Even after the Modern Standard Chinese (actually Beijing dialect) becomes the common written language, these vernacular written systems are still widely used; that's why they own their own versions. And in fact, Modern Standard Chinese also comes from the vernacular written systems for Northern Chinese before it become the national language.
(a) Actually, everything in Chinese may have a counterpart in Guanhua written in Pinyin, that's because, as what I've mentioned, Mandarin is the mightiest Chinese dialect NOW, but whether in the future is unpredictable. And more, even written in same chinese characters with same grammar, the sounds and tones are still changing with period of history (namely Beijing dielect is "Guanhua" now, "Guanhua" actually means "the languages of the government" in Chinese character, and it's changing throughout the history, Nanjing dialect used to be "Guanhua" in Ming and Qing dynasty), that's why there are differences between Nanjing Mandarin, Old National Pronunciation and Modern Standard Pronunciation (b) Guanhua may also be viewed as the "modern Chinese", comparing with Old Chinese (Wp/och) and Middle Chinese (Wp/ltc), and the test project of Middle Chinese is also written in romanized script.
Thanks for bringing me these problems that the test project may encounter, I still believe that Wp/cmn test version is worthy to become a formal version. And please help it as you can.--Asd1346 (talk) 07:23, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[]
I will do that. Langcom has a variety of other issues on its plate right now, and I want to wait until some of them are cleared away, perhaps over the next month or so. But I think after that we should push LangCom either to say that the project is "eligible" or not, so that you can work with clarity. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:33, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[]

Email Problem

I cannot receive the email that you have sent to me yesterday.Would you like to copy the content of the email to User talk:Asdfugil? Asdfugil (talk) 00:21, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[]

@Asdfugil: I wanted you to explain briefly why you are blocked on Commons. That block does not at all mean that I will not approve test-admin here, but I do want to make sure that a problem does not develop here. Thank you. StevenJ81 (talk) 02:47, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81: I was blocked on Commons because I didn't know much about the policy of Commons at that time. So I ensure a problem won't develop here.--Asdfugil (talk) 11:48, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[]
@Asdfugil: OK. Thank you for that. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:58, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[]

bqi wiki test

sure I and my friends do all of your requests so thanks. please help us. Mogoeilor (talk) 03:53, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[]

Re:Did you create the user page?

Yes, I didn't notice I was logged out until after I created the page. I appreciate the concern. Tom 144 (talk) 16:29, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[]

@Tom 144: OK. I'm going to revdel the IP creation for your privacy. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:31, 25 July 2017 (UTC)[]


Shalom. I am sorry I haven't been around on the JS Wikipedia as I am focused on getting the lfn Wikipedia approved. I really don't know what the whole issue is about. Could you please explain it to me? (either here or by email). --Katxis (talk) 14:16, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[]

@Katxis: You've got mail. (;-) StevenJ81 (talk) 15:24, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Guianan Wiki

Hi, can u tell me what I have to do for the Guianan Wikipedia is at least considered eligible or be accepted, please ! LeGuyanaisPure (talk) 12:37, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Because I have seen one wiki test with only 100 articles that have been accepted mine contains more than 400 articles and it is not even considered eligible, please help me ! LeGuyanaisPure (talk) 13:55, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Bonjour, User:LeGuyanaisPure. Thank you for asking.
  1. Content. I think you've made a good start here. But understand two things:
    • In terms of pure "number of pages", you are doing well. (Usually, I tell people to set a target of 500 pages in article space.) The only Wikipedia projects that are approved with as few as 100–150 pages are projects where a local Wikimedia chapter (or a similar organization) has an ongoing commitment to support development efforts. So those are exceptions to the general rules.
    • I made a random check of ten pages in your test. Seven of the ten pages had only one or two sentences. The pages you have must be more complete; a project containing almost all stubs will not be approved. In general, assume that no more than half of your articles—and preferably 25% or fewer of your articles—can be stubs.
    I notice you are making use of en:Wikipedia:Vital articles. Consider also making use of fr:Wikipédia:Articles vitaux, since most speakers of créole guyanais also speak standard French. And then consider simply translating/adapting articles nearly whole from French Wikipédia, since they already have content and reliable sources. Just be sure to add an edit comment or a talk page note or template saying that you translated/adapted the article from French (or English or whatever) Wikipedia on whatever day that happens. (That is required by the licenses we use here.) [Also: do spend a little time creating new articles specifically about French Guiana, since your community will have particularly high expertise about those subjects.]
  2. Community. The Language Committee will not approve projects that are the work of a single person. The general rule is that a "community" needs to be building the project. The definition of a "community" is that there should be three editors, each one with at least ten edits, every single month. And there needs to be that kind of "community" for at least three months in a row, and continuing without a break until the project is approved. (The same three editors don't need be there every month—just every month there must be three editors.) You have reached that level in July, and arguably in August, but that needs to keep going.
    Usually "housekeeping" edits by someone like me do not really count, so even if I have 14 edits in Wp/gcr this month, it is better not to count me for that purpose.
  3. Translating interface. Your community needs to begin to translate the MediaWiki interface into créole guyanais. To do that, you need to request support for the language at See the instructions at languages#Enabling a new language for localisation at Once you are set up there, you need to begin by translating the "most used Wikimedia core messages"; see translatewiki:Special:MessageGroupStats/core-0-mostused.
You still have plenty of work to do. But you've made a good start, so keep going and good luck! Please be in touch if you have more questions. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:24, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Wow, there is still much to do, I put myself right away, thank you for everything ! LeGuyanaisPure (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Hi, can U help me I can't register on, what to do to be able to register ?! LeGuyanaisPure (talk) 13:03, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Translatewiki is a completely independent project. You have to create a new account there. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:33, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Hi, Help me please, I tried to translate in my language but my language is not in, so I created the portal of Guianan Creole and I don't know what to do now ! LeGuyanaisPure (talk) 15:49, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[]

You have to wait until somebody does the behind-the-scenes stuff to get gcr activated over there. First, confirm (there) that French is the "fallback" language. Here's what that means:
  • Créole guyanais will not be available as an interface language on any Wikimedia project until the 762 core most-used Wikimedia messages have been translated. That's simply policy, and in any event for Wp/gcr to be approved eventually, you will have to have translated enough messages to make that happen.
  • Besides those 762 core most-used messages, there are another 3,100 messages in the "core" group that are not in the most-used messages subgroup. And there are hundreds of other MediaWiki messages that in theory can be translated.
  • In order for your project to be approved, only the first 762 messages need to be translated. But the other messages have to appear in some language or the interface will have holes in it. The default "fallback" language is always English. But by specifying French as the "fallback" language, what you are saying is that any message which you haven't yet translated into créole will appear in French. And then only messages that have not even been translated into French (almost none) would appear in English. If you look at atj:, you can see how this works.
Beyond that, it takes some time for the people over at translatewiki to take care of the behind-the-scenes work. If gcr has not been activated there by next Monday let me know, and I'll try to nudge some people. But for the moment be patient. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:28, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Monday is past, I ask in the support but I don't know why nobody wants to answer me, if you know people who can do something don't hesitate more please and can you can tell me where I must add French as a rechargeable language ?! LeGuyanaisPure (talk) 15:59, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[]

Answer from Nah:Wikipedia

I appreciate your sincerity and I understand your position. All my apologies for my comments on your talk page in Judeo-Spanish Wikipedia; I also don't want to spill more disagreements with anyone else. To me, it's a closed case, even though he insists on slandering me. I totally agree with the policies of Wikiquote and Incubator. What you say about the Mexican National Anthem, I agree too, should be on wikisource. (If spelled correctly)

You ask me:

Is this a legitimate transcription? Answer, no. The nahuatl used in that text does not correspond to any variant, it is artificial material created by a student of the classic Nahuatl (only the first verse in capital letter seems modern variant). Must be deleted.

Like the stubs written in the Nahuatl variants in Incubator, they contain a lot mistakes and distort real speech (as well as those who try to write in Judeo-Spanish and don't really speak up). To me it's very difficult to decide what to do with these tests in Incubator, really there must be native speakers there who write, not mestizos.

At your service. --Akapochtli (talk) 06:44, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[]

@Akapochtli: Thank you for getting back to me. I will delete that. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:21, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[]

About Infoboxes

Hi StevenJ81. Can you help me understand infoboxes? Do we need some extra procedures to include them in our test wikis? And what are the steps to follow in orther to create them? --Amara-Amaziɣ (talk) 19:11, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[]

@Amara-Amaziɣ: I can give you more detail tomorrow, probably. In general, you create infoboxes here the same way you would on any other project. You would name them the equivalent of Template:Wp/xxx/Infobox foobar, and the template call would look something like this:
{{Wp/xxx/Infobox foobar
|entry 1 = unlinked entry
|entry 2 = [[Wp/xxx/linked entry with prefix|linked entry with prefix]]
  |entry S1 = unlinked entry
Just make sure that the initial template call and all subtemplate calls are prefixed. And make sure any linked entry uses a prefixed link. (But then use a pipe so that the prefix doesn't actually appear in the template.)
The one downside is that you cannot use Wikidata to fill your templates from Incubator; you have to fill them by hand. In general, though, it's easy to change that once your project is approved and in its own subdomain.
More tomorrow. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:54, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[]
@StevenJ81: Thanks for these initial explanations, code have just started to make sense to me. I attempted many times to import an infobox from the English Wikipedia, but all these attempts have failed. There is an endless number of templates and modules, and something called Lua(!?), that maybe is not available in our test wikis. I don't know. I am looking forward to your further explanations. --Amara-Amaziɣ (talk) 00:47, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[]
@Amara-Amaziɣ: (You never have to ping someone if you are on their talk page. That's an "automatic" ping.)
I take your point. The Lua modules do improve the flexibility of the system a great deal, and make certain things much easier to do than they would be without them. They also add an enormous amount of complexity to a system which is supposed to be changeable "by everyone". Templates on English Wikipedia are starting to require a substantial infrastructure train behind them, which makes them very hard to port elsewhere. (Disclosure: I have the "template editor" right on English Wikipedia. And I don't touch Lua modules unless the change is a simple drop-in replacement.)
I suggest, instead, going to Simple English Wikipedia (simple:). On simplewiki, in the vast majority of cases, the community has decided not to use Lua-based templates, and to leave the older wiki-markup versions in place. So those are much more readily ported here. And for the most part Simple English Wikipedia has all the templates a small Wikipedia (like any new test here) would need.
If you absolutely need something from English Wikipedia (or French Wikipedia), consider looking through the edit history of the template you want, and take the last version there from before the template was converted to Lua.
One other thing about Lua Modules: Our firm policy here is that test projects be fully self-contained. If a test wants a template, it needs to create a prefixed template of its own. If it wants a Lua module, it needs to create (or import) a prefixed Lua module. If many test communities want the same module (or template), they still each need a copy. And there is a reason for that: When the project is eventually exported to its own subdomain, we want the test project to have everything it will need already in place, prefixed, so it can be exported to the subdomain. We don't want to have to think to ourselves, "hmmm...I wonder if it wants this common module or that common template from Incubator." The only unprefixed template allowed on prefixed pages is {{delete}}, because in that single case the "Incubator maintenance" aspect overrides the "everything ready for export" aspect. If I try to use even an unprefixed "ping" on an article's talk page, it will throw out an error message asking me to create a prefixed version of the template.
Feel free to ask away if you have further questions. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:05, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[]
PS: You are, of course, welcome to the "clock" userbox template. (smile) However, I don't really know of anywhere in the world that has that exact time zone (UTC, with summer time, but the summer-time dates are the North American dates). If you tell me what time zone you really want to see, I'll show you how to fix it. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:05, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[]
(Got it!)
I'm very grateful for your help and for your detailed and very clear explanations. Thank you for noting the usefulness of the Simple English Wikipedia, it will help us also in translating knowledge into Amazigh, as the sentences there are less complex; this, until we get a nice grip on Amazigh writing styles. I will proceed in importing some basic templates and learning more about them.
(Haha) Well I wasn't sure that I made the right modifications for the code to adapt the "clock" userbox template to my timezone. But it seems working. I'm from Morocco and we've got UTC with summer time here. Please show me how to fix it if there's something wrong. --Amara-Amaziɣ (talk) 11:43, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[]
So I started importing templates to create an Infobox, but it seems simple: is as much complicated as en:, its templates require the Infobox module that requires Navbar module that requires Arguments module... These are Lua modules I guess. You can see here how the language infobox looks. --Amara-Amaziɣ (talk) 14:38, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[]
@Amara-Amaziɣ: With the clock template, the two figures in there are the standard > summer transition time and the summer > standard transition time, in UTC as yyyymmddhhmmss. So for you that would be 20170326020000 and 20171029020000 (if the article en:Daylight saving time in Morocco is right, and not figuring in Ramadan).
As for the others, do you know how to copy things from an older version of an article? You're going to need to copy out the template versions from just before they were switched to Lua. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:12, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[]

Saraiki language wikis

Most work on Saraiki has been done. Kindly get approved by Languages committee.

— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sraiki (discussioncontribs) 03:39, 1 September 2017 (UTC).[]

Dear Sraiki:
I appreciate the work you have been putting into your projects. You are certainly making progress.
I have tried to tell you before that even though you are making progress on these wikis, they are not yet ready to go to the Language Committee for approval:
  • Content. The Wikipedia test project should probably be close to 500 mainspace pages. And no more than half of them—better, no more than 25% of them—should be stubs. This project has about 150 pages now, and on a random selection of ten pages, I found only two that were longer than two lines of text. So there is not yet enough content here for the Language Committee to approve the project.
  • Community. The Language Committee wants to see the commitment of a community of users supporting these projects. The committee wants to feel confident that if is approves the project, there will be a group of people around who will continue to support and maintain the project. For that reason, the committee looks for a community of users to be involved in the project. LangCom defines a community as (1) for at least three months, and continuing until approval, there should be (2) at least three editors (with usernames) every month with (3) at least ten edits during the month. The editors don't have to be the same ones every month; there just have to be at least three every month. Note: It is likely that Language Committee will do a checkuser determination of contributors to the wiki at the time of approval. If it finds that there are not really three contributors, but only sockpuppets, it will not approve the project. Since you are blocked on English Wikipedia as a sockpuppet, I strongly suggest you keep this in mind.
  • Interface. To get projects approved, you need to translate the MediaWiki interface into Saraiki. Please visit this page and start translating.
Since you need to have a community together and working, I suggest you make no more requests to have these projects approved for another three months. Instead of focusing on the Language Committee, please focus on translating the interface, gathering a community together, and creating meaningful content in your test projects. Thank you for your understanding. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:31, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[]
Dear Thanks for guidance, Interface language has been translated in Saraiki. No I am not sockpuppet, I am wrongly blocked. Sraiki (talk) 14:45, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[]
I am not arguing whether your block is correct or not. I want you to realize that people are going to notice that and watch this project closely.
I do not see that the interface is translated. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:46, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[]
Wt/skr may be approved first. Interface Translation is at Sraiki (talk) 14:51, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[]
Found interface translation. Thank you. I didn't think to look at skr-arab instead of skr. There are still some untranslated messages there. This is probably because fairly recently some messages from the "Core MediaWiki Messages" group were moved into the "most used messages" subgroup. Do have a look at those.
I can appreciate that Wt/skr may be approved first. It looks more advanced, and has more community involvement (though still not enough.) I'm not a great expert on Wiktionaries, but it does appear to me that the definitions I see at Wt/skr are very simple, bulleted definitions. In most developed Wiktionaries, entries include information on part of speech, pronunciation, and sometimes use examples and translation into other languages. I cannot honestly tell you what LangCom may particularly look for, especially because it is unusual for a Wiktionary to be the first approved project of a language. You may wish to ask the advice of wikt:User:Wikitiki89, who is very good at this. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:00, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[]
[Calling @MF-Warburg, Satdeep Gill: There is no reason the Wiktionary shouldn't be marked as "eligible" on Meta. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:08, 1 September 2017 (UTC)][]
Dear Thanks for help.Sraiki (talk) 15:11, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[]
Hi @StevenJ81:, @Sraiki: I have marked Saraiki wiktionary as eligible. Thanks for reaching out to me. --Satdeep Gill (talk) 16:29, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[]

Pashto Wikivoyage 1

Hei can you please change this [11] code because the ps is the right code for Pashto, it's not Pus :) Khan (talk) 17:09, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[]

@Bloch khan: Thank you for your note. The two are equivalent codes: ps is the code under ISO 639–1, while pus is the code under ISO 639–3. Around Wikimedia, we normally use only ps. But we need to know the correct equivalents, too, exactly for the reason you suggested: we don't want someone to create, for example, a project called "Wy/pus" when they should be contributing to the project at "Wy/ps". Thanks for writing. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:59, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[]

And the name of Pashto Wikivoyage is not (ويکييون), it's (ويکيسفر:Wikivoyage). (سفر) word which means Travel in Pashto. this world is also used in persian language, but Wikivoyage in Persian language is named (ويکی سفر). Pashto Wikipedia is one word (ويکيپېډيا), But Persian name is (ويکی پدیا).:) Khan (talk) 18:13, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[]

@Bloch khan: That issue is really up to the community to decide; you need to discuss that internally as a community. The administrators here do not speak Pashto, and wouldn't presume to tell the project what it should call itself, within reason. If there is already an established name coined by the community at Pashto Wikipedia, that might also need to be taken into consideration. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:07, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[]

What you think have we any solution, how that how to change the name to Original, any links or sites which I can request?:) Khan (talk) 08:28, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[]

@Bloch khan: Again, you need to start a discussion internally within your test community, presumably either at Talk:Wy/ps or Talk:Wy/ps/لومړی مخ. (Or, create the discussion at the Community Forum page of Pashto Wikipedia, which is, I think, at this page: ps:ويکيپېډيا:د ټولنې تانبه.) In any case, there is very little for anyone else to do until and unless this project is ready to be approved by the Language Committee and placed in its own subdomain. At that point, the wiki developers will want to have all the correct names in place so they can create the wiki correctly. But for right now, the best thing for you to do is:
  • Create content
  • Try to recruit additional people to work on this test with you (because LangCom will not approve a project that only one person works on
  • Continue to translate additional messages at
Good luck. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:40, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[]

And here (ps:ويکيپېډيا:ويکييون_نوم_بدلول) is some of actives people in Pashto Wikipedia, who has been voted for changing the name of Pashto wikivoyage, including me:) Khan (talk) 20:05, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[]

I know it is not too many, but actually we don't have many active people in Pashto wikipedia also. Khan (talk) 20:07, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[]

OK. I'm a little confused. The Google translated version of that page keeps switching back and forth between "Wikivoyage", "Wikisource" and "Wikiquote". I hate to ask you this, but would you mind putting a translation here? Thanks. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:10, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[]

OK'are you activ every day? Khan (talk) 20:42, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[]

Most days except Saturdays. But probably less in the future than I have been; I have a day job. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:05, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[]

Please Check Discussion of this page and help me:)) Khan (talk) 03:10, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[]

  Done StevenJ81 (talk) 00:28, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[]

Approval requirements

Can you please tell me that what should we do, for Approving the Wikivoyage Pashto? :)) Khan (talk) 23:14, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[]

  1. There needs to be a community creating this wiki. Right now it's a one-man-show—you—and projects are never approved that way. So the first thing you need to do is to have three straight months where at least three editors with accounts make at least ten edits each. It doesn't have to be the same three people every month, but there do need to be at least three people every month. And once you have that, you have to continue to have three people every month until you get approved. Let me repeat: if you do not get a community involved, the project will not be approved, no matter how good a job you do with it.
  2. While that is happening, keep creating content.
  3. Go to the interface translation area of In particular, please finish the translations of the MediaWiki most used messages group, and as far as possible the MediaWiki core messages group. (In some cases, translations may be marked "outdated", and you either have to confirm they're still good or else update them.)
By the way, you will not become a test administrator here unless you answer my question on that page. StevenJ81 (talk) 00:28, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[]

Which question? :)) Khan (talk) 07:33, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[]

See I:A#Bloch khan (Wy/ps). StevenJ81 (talk) 13:12, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[]

Hei one thing that I am sure you can help me: Latin language are using 123456789 and we Pashtuns are using this ۱۲۳(123) but in Wikivoyage Pashto they show result like this 123 not ۱۲۳, but Pashto Wikivoyage should use ۱۲۳ not 123 please do something:))) Khan (talk) 20:25, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[]

There are some scripts that do this. I'm off-wiki for a few days, starting now, but will try to help you with that next week. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:47, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[]

This will be very helpful to people who can't read Latin Alphabet:)) Khan (talk) 19:23, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[]

Hei remember that you said you will help me next week? :))) Khan (talk) 19:10, 1 October 2017 (UTC)[]

I remember, but sometimes real life gets in the way. :P I'm not sure I'll get to it this week, but I'll try to do so soon. StevenJ81 (talk) 00:57, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[]

Can you please check to know what we do, we making many good pages like this every time. :)) Khan (talk) 03:44, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[]

Template help

Thanks @stevenJ81 ,

As you have asked me to provide the template page where am working. Please see my contribution page . There am used table process for infobox . Plz help me to make infobox template.

Thanks , Ramjit

Start with Template:Wp/sat/Infobox country, which I just created by importing it from a different wiki and translating it. You should be able to modify this to create whatever type of infobox you want. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:26, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[]


Hei I really don't know why this wiki book has been closed, can you please tell me little bit about it?? :) Khan (talk)
To make a long story short, in 2007–2009, a number of small, inactive wiki projects were closed. This happened because these wikis had a lot of spam and very little legitimate activity other than fighting that spam. When there was useful content in a closed wiki, it was imported to here; that's what happened with Pashto Wikibooks. There are several other cases where there was no useful content to import at all.
These days, things are different. We don't let projects even get started unless there is a community working on them; that's why there's an activity requirement as part of project approval. On the other hand, we do not close legitimate projects due to inactivity any more, because the automatic defenses against spam are a lot better than they used to be.
Two or three previously closed projects have been reopened; the latest was Dutch Wikinews. I think I would encourage you to focus on your Wikipedia project first, though, before starting to think about how to handle a project like Pashto Wikibooks. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:39, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[]

Yes, you are right. But please remember that I spending 60% of my time with pashto Wikivoyage :))) Khan (talk) 16:19, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[]

Sorry. I meant that. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:40, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[]

Ladino dolomitico

Scusa l'italiano. Il giorno 12 ottobre a Bolzano la Provincia autonoma di Bolzano presenta un tentativo di rilanciare Incubator in lingua ladina. C'è pure un comunicato ufficiale che , fin troppo, anticipa i tempi di quelle che sono le speranze future:

Speriamo comunque bene. Se su Incubator siamo forse solo ai sogni, per alcuni aspetti siamo avanti.
L'Università di Bolzano/Bressanone (sezione ladina) sta compiendo lo sforzo di creare un dizionario indicando tutte le occorrenze dei lemmi nella letteratura ladina.

Per far questo, come sopra ti avevo scritto, ha scansionato tutti i testi della letteratura ladina e ha curato l'OCR e la trascrizione sia nella grafia originaria che in quella moderna. Ci ha autorizzato a caricare su Wikisource tutte le sue trascrizioni.
Per la parte dizionario il progetto dell'Università è ancora in fase di stesura e non abbiamo però ancora pensato come sarà possibile utilizzarlo sui progetti Wikimedia. Nel frattempo abbiamo trovato che sul wikizionario inglese c'è già un interessante esperimento che i ladini hanno detto che è di buona qualità. Io ho solo messo un link per vedere come utilizzarlo in un discorso molto più ampio, ma tutto ancora da pensare.Mizardellorsa (talk) 13:58, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[]

@Mizardellorsa: Grazie. Va bene; modificherò leggermente la pagina per rendere più chiare le questioni. Se si inizia a creare contenuti del dizionario, modifica Wt/lld per dire |status=open. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:06, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[]
Ti ringrazio molto.--Mizardellorsa (talk) 09:01, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[]
Il piacere è tutto mio. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:50, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[]

Hei sir

Have you any news about our Pashto Wikivoyage ? thank's:)))) Khan (talk)

As I have said to you several times before, you must have three editors (with ten edits each) over three calendar months. Right now you only have two calendar months: September and October. You need to keep that up through November before I can suggest to the Language Committee that you are ready. You are welcome to ask me again on 1 December. :) StevenJ81 (talk) 21:46, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[]

Did you get my email? Khan (talk) 23:30, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[]

Pashto Wikivoyage numerals

Pashto alphabet and numerals

Hei brother can you help us to change our numerals to Eastern Arabic numerals in Pashto Wikivoyage , because we use Eastern Arabic numerals in in Our language...thank's:))) Khan (talk) Khan (talk) 11:58, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[]

Khan, it doesn't look like Pashto Wikipedia uses them. Are you sure you want them?
Calling MF-Warburg, SPQRobin, Danny B.: I'm pretty sure there are scripts around somewhere to accomplish this? Are any of you familiar? And can such a think be put in place on a single test here, or does it need to wait unless/until a separate project is spun off? StevenJ81 (talk) 13:37, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[]

Hei currently Arabic Wikipedia using Latin numerals, but they don't use it on Arabic test Wikivoyage, because now they have chance to use right numerals. And I as an administrator of Pashto Wikipedia and test Wikivoyage can say that the picture with Pashto script is 100% right. Also there is som of most useful and important websites, you can check every word's and numerals which we actually using here in Pashto language:

i wrote Pashto version, because many of Afghanistan websites have two versions Dari and Pashto

  1. Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Islamic Republic of Afghanistan Pashto version
  2. Pashto google
  3. afghan national tv Pashto version
  4. Voice of American radio Pashto version
  5. afghan Afghan parliament Pashto version
  6. bbc Pashto
  7. Us embassy Pashto version
  8. Office of the President of Afghanistan Pashto version
  9. Pashto version
  13. Ministry of Finance of Afghanistan Pashto version:-) Khan (talk) 19:05, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[]

OK. So the fact that it exists here on Arabic Wikivoyage test clearly shows there is a way to do this here on Incubator. Personally, I don't know how to do so. Let's see if any of the others I pinged will respond. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:09, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[]

Hei brother maybe this is the link here can check out this please? :-)

You're probably right. BUT THIS IS WAY BEYOND MY SKILL TO DO RIGHT. PLEASE wait for someone who is more knowledgeable about this to help. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:41, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[]

ok..:-)Khan (talk)

Need your help

Hei sir can you please make this MediaWikies

  1. with this name: MediaWiki:Testwiki-title-open/ps, like this

MediaWiki: Testwiki-title-open/en.
Pashto word's for MediaWiki:Testwiki-title-open/ps is here: دا د ويکيمېډيا اېنکیوبېټر یوه خلاصه آزموینې ويکي ده

Next: with this name: MediaWiki:Testwiki-text-open/ps, like this MediaWiki:Testwiki-text-open/fa.
Pashto word's for MediaWiki:Testwiki-title-open/ps is here: دا ازمايښتي ويکي خلاصه ده یا د جوړولو وړتیاوې لري. که تاسو په دي ژبه پوهيږي، نو ستاسو نه غوښتنه کيږی چي په دغه پروژه کې بدلونونه راولي. همدارنګه [[Help:Manual/ps|لارښوونه]] وګوري چي څه کارونو   ته اړتیا شته چي تاسو يي تر سره کړي. Khan (talk)

  Done In general, better to do this at I:AN, so that if I'm not available someone else can do it. (Note: I'm happy to take care of things like this, but will only do it once a day.) StevenJ81 (talk) 21:01, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[]

bqi wiki incubator

Hello Dear StevenJ81
please guide us to create bqi wiki please tell us the tips can help us to make this wiki. best wishes.Mogoeilor (talk) 08:42, 19 November 2017 (UTC) @Mogoeilor: Here's what you need to do:[]

  • (most urgent) Get at least one additional user besides you and User:میوند بختیاری to make at least ten edits between now and the end of November. Then keep up the level of activity with at least three named editors making at least ten edits in a month, every single month. Most months recently you have been fine, but you did miss October.
  • Stop creating new stubs (short pages). Instead, concentrate on turning pages you have into real encyclopedia pages. You really want to have at least half the pages in your test, and preferably more, as real encyclopedia pages, with detailed content and reliable sources. If I call up ten "random pages" on your test, I'd like to see at least five with more than 2–3 sentences of content.

Start there, and let's see where we are in another month or so. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[]

One other thing: What articles to give priority to for filling out into full encyclopedia articles? I'd suggest two different places to start:
StevenJ81 (talk) 16:54, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[]

Good news

Hei brother good news for Pashto numerals please check it here T181265:) Khan (talk) 06:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[]

Approving of Wikivoyage

Like you said, today is one December and can you please try to help us to Approve Pashto Wikivoyage? :))) Khan (talk) 12:00, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[]

I have one project ahead of yours to try to finish moving through. You're next after that. Keep the project active in the meantime! StevenJ81 (talk) 14:42, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Hei sir could you please create this MediaWikis


  1. with this name: MediaWiki:Testwiki-text-approved-created/ps, like this

Pashto word's for MediaWiki:Testwiki-text-approved-created/ps is here: تاسو کولی شئ دا په <span style="font-size:90%;">'''[//{{SUBPAGENAME}}.{{#switch:{{BASEPAGENAME}}|Wp=wikipedia|Wt=wiktionary|Wb=wikibooks|Wn=wikinews|Wq=wikiquote|Ws=wikisource|Wv=wikiversity|Wy=wikivoyage}}.org/ {{SUBPAGENAME}}.{{#switch:{{BASEPAGENAME}}|Wp=wikipedia|Wt=wiktionary|Wb=wikibooks|Wn=wikinews|Wq=wikiquote|Ws=wikisource|Wv=wikiversity|Wy=wikivoyage}}.org]'''</span> کي پيدا کړي.

second: with this name: MediaWiki:Testwiki-text-approved/ps, like this MediaWiki:Testwiki-text-approved/fa.
Pashto word's for MediaWiki:Testwiki-text-approved/ps is here: دا ويکي د [[m:Language committee|د ژبې کمېټۍ]] لخوا تاييد کړل شوي ده، (همدارنګه [[I:Site creation log|د ويکي جوړونې پاڼه]] هم وګوري).

third: with this name: MediaWiki:Testwiki-title-approved/ps, like this MediaWiki:Testwiki-title-approved/fa.
Pashto word's for MediaWiki:Testwiki-title-approved/ps is here: دا د ويکيمېډيا اېنکیوبېټر تاييد شوي آزموینې ويکي ده Khan (talk) 21:37, 4 December 2017 (UTC)[]

@Bloch khan:   Done Please make sure they look the way you think they should look. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:27, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Pashto Wikivoyage 2

Hei sir How is going work with Pashto Wikivoyage, is everything alright?:))) Khan (talk) 06:21, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[]

You seem to be doing fine. As I mentioned to you elsewhere, I'm trying to clear a couple of other things off of LangCom's desk, and then will have them look at Pashto Wikivoyage. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:28, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[]


Hei i looked at the impotent massage,and thanks, was thinking to suggest Wikivoyage to langcom? :)) Khan (talk) 16:36, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Hi. We'd better wait on this. There's a pretty heated debate on other subjects going on there right now. I don't think you'll have a problem, but please give me a few days. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:53, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[]
Hei Sir I think waiting is the most difficult thing to do, and you know better than me, and trust me, every morning when I wake up and the first thing I do is to check what happened on Wikivoyage, normally I checking Wikivoyage more than 20 times from day I started to work on this project. But you know better what to do:)) Khan (talk) 00:27, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Pashto Wikivoyage 3

Hei sir is there any way to Approve Wikivoyage, I am waiting for this everyday:-| Khan (talk) 17:42, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Please: I beg your patience. I don't think you'll have a problem with approval, but I think that Friday is going to be the day I will take it to LangCom. Then remember that it will take one week for formal approval, and then at least another week or two for the new wiki to be created. Beyond that, remember that for most people in North America and Western Europe (including most of the people who do the technical work around here), this is a holiday season, and the physical creation of the wiki (and the export of the Incubator test to the new wiki) will be subject to a delay because of that.
To summarize: figure I will put the question to LangCom on Friday 15 Dec. Approval is likely (though not guaranteed) on Friday 22 Dec. Beyond that, unless the developers and exporters strongly desire to get this wiki created before the end of the year, the new wiki probably won't actually be created and ready to use until about mid-January. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:09, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Thanks you very much for your help sir :-) Khan (talk) 12:21, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[]


Hei sir I didn't become administrator that is not a problem, like you said you will help me with some MediaWikies transactions. But can I take a way my request from incubator:administrator? and you also said that you will take our Wikivoyage to langcom this Friday :)) Khan (talk) 14:54, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[]

I'll archive the administrator request. And I'm in the middle of some mail to LangCom right now. The request will be in before I'm finished with that. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:19, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[]
@Bloch khan: OK. The request went to LangCom just now. Note that I have just marked the project as "eligible" over on Meta, but remember that "eligible" is not a project approval, it only says that this project meets the eligibility guidelines for projects. I didn't do that earlier because I've been busy working on project requests that have been open since 2010 or earlier to resolve them first! StevenJ81 (talk) 15:40, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Thank you so much sir, and what is next step? :))) Khan (talk) 17:03, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Keep working on the test. And otherwise ... wait. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:48, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Sir like you said this will be Approv maybe after Christmas? :))) Khan (talk) 18:18, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Maybe. I forgot that once the LangCom agrees, we also need to publish a notice at Talk:Language committee for seven days and see if there are other objections. I have never seen one, but that's a piece of quality control to make sure that we haven't missed anything obvious. So let's say, maybe this will be approved by about New Year's Day. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:59, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Hei sir

Hei sir did you know how to change signature, in settings you can change the name, not hole signature system, I was thinking to make signature like this :Khan (talk) 21:35, 17 December 2017 (UTC)[]

You usually shouldn't have a signature that becomes much bigger (vertically) than standard body text. (A little is ok; this much is not.) Otherwise, instructions are available at m:Help:Signature. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:36, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Merry Christmas

I wish to you and all users of Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikinews, Wikibooks, Wikidata, Wikimedia Incubator and Meta-Wiki Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Leonardo José Raimundo (talk) 09:19, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Pashto Wikivoyage 4

Hei sir first you wrote to me that Pashto Wikivoyage has been Approved, but later you marked request as eligible what happened? :)) Khan (talk) 01:23, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

To make a long story short, I misinterpreted the new rules. Approval by LangCom is automatic after one week only if there are no objections. Since there were objections, there is discussion until someone explicitly calls for a vote. Right now we need to give discussion a chance. A couple of people think the project is too small to approve (and feel they made a mistake approving the Hindi project, too). Be patient and keep creating content. StevenJ81 (talk) 03:24, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

So this means that they will not approve Pashto Wikivoyage, I really don't understand what to say sir!. I spent much of my and 3 author's time, I really don't even know where they live but sometimes they are also coming with some information to help Pashto language Wikivoyage. we can't find information about places in our language, I was searching everywhere and checked many sources to find just anything that I could change it to Pashto. I would like to tell you, that Pashto Wikivoyage will be 100% the one and only source to find information about any place in Pashto, (first time I wrote my feelings in Wikimedia) :))) Khan (talk) 04:53, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

I believe that eventually they will approve the project. But they would like to see more pages of content than you currently have. Look at m:Wikivoyage. Except for Hindi, every approved project has 650 pages or more. If this will be the one and only source of travel info in Pashto, you can surely find more places to write about.
I will continue to work on your approval. But if you can get up to, say, 200 (well-researched) pages, it will be that much easier for me to support you. StevenJ81 (talk) 05:04, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

But do they said, when they will approve this project sir? :))) Khan (talk) 06:29, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

No, they didn't. They want you to fix up any pages you did not create and that are not good, and they want you to add more pages. They're not really talking about "time" or "when" right now. They're not against the project, and they think you're doing very good work here. They just want to see the project a little more completely developed.
I truly appreciate how disappointed you feel. And I fear that I may have ended up leading you on a little. I have to say that I definitely did not expect the committee to react this way. They have been wanting to see new non-Wikipedia projects created, and your project is bigger than Hindi, as far as it goes.
That having been said, it is very important for you to understand this: Part of what LangCom is trying to make sure about is that the project continues to remain active and to grow after it is approved. What they do not want to see happen, most of all, is for someone to work hard on a project, to get it approved, and then to walk away to do something else—even to create Pashto Wikibooks or Pashto Wikinews. If you looked at the edit that I rolled back, you'll see that I said that it was important for you to continue to create content on this project and not to get distracted. So from my point of view, the job of you and your collaborators is the same whether the project is created now or not: Keep adding pages to Pashto Wikivoyage.
If you keep doing that, this project will be approved and created. Honestly, if simply getting the project approved were more important to you than continuing to build the project, then it would be better if the project were never approved. But I don't think that's true: I think you want to continue to build the project. So continue to build, keep it up. You're definitely doing the right thing. And eventually you will see success.
I am going to continue to talk to LangCom, and will try to see if I can get a target for you to work towards. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:17, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

But 30 December you will see 200 pages on Pashto Wikivoyage, promise! Khan (talk) 17:27, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

@Bloch khan: But they've got to be good pages, not just thrown together! StevenJ81 (talk) 17:29, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

How is good page for example? :)) Khan (talk) 17:33, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

@Bloch khan: I'm not a big expert on Wikivoyage. But I suggest you go to some very-well developed projects like English Wikivoyage, as well perhaps some medium-sized Wikivoyage projects if you speak any of the languages. Take a look at a random group of pages from each one. Each of your pages should have the same level of information and detail as that. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:05, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]
You are allowed to copy and translate from other projects—just be sure you say you've done that in the edit history or on the talk page. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:06, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]
I gave you a little present, at least, that maybe you will enjoy. You may have to bypass your cache to see it. Go to any page in Wy/ps. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:17, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Now the project came up to Template:Wy/ps/NUMBEROFARTICLES Pages, and after 41 hours I would really like to sleep. Thank you very much, you are really good and helpful person sir:))). Khan (talk) 00:32, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Hei sir did anything happen? is there any chance to get Pashto Wikivoyage? :))) Khan (talk) 01:47, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Nothing's happened recently. LangCom is generally checked out and on break until after the new year. StevenJ81 (talk) 01:49, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[]

What you think sir, you think we will get our own wiki? :)) Khan (talk) 01:54, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[]

You should relax, Khan. Take it easy. Have a vacation.
No, seriously: I think you'll get it. But I've always thought that you would get it. The question is when, which follows from the question of "how many pages do they want to see before they'll say yes?" I have asked for a target. But as I said, everyone's away, and no one is answering right now. If I had to guess: You might get it as early as January. If you keep building the project, you almost definitely will get it by March. StevenJ81 (talk) 01:58, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Mamma, thank you so much, I will take free for 3 days, then I will work on project until target, Happy new year to you from now:)))))) Khan (talk) 02:28, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[]

Sir you don't think it can happen in January?:))) Khan (talk) 20:42, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[]

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