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• English: Feel free to ask anything below, preferably in English or one of the other main world languages. See Incubator:Administrators to request special access, like test-adminship. See Help:Contents or Help:Manual for help in general.
• বাংলা: নিচে আপনি যে কোনও কিছু জিজ্ঞাসা করতে পারেন। ইংরেজিতে বা বিশ্বের অন্য যে কোনও একটি প্রধান ভাষায় জিজ্ঞাসা করুন। কোনও অধিকারের জন্য আবেদন করতে Incubator:Administrators দেখুন। সাধারণ সাহায্যের জন্য Help:Contents/bn বা Help:Manual/bn দেখুন।
• Français: N'hésitez pas à poser une question ci-dessous, de préférence en anglais ou dans une autre des principales langues internationales. Pour récupérer votre compte utilisateur ou demander son renommage, voir Incubator:Administrators. Voir Help:Contents/fr ou Help:Manual/fr pour l'aide en général.
• Español: No dude en preguntar algo en esta página, preferiblemente en inglés o en otro de los principales idiomas internacionales. Para recuperar su cuenta de usuario o cambiar su nombre de usuario, ver Incubator:Administrators. Leer Help:Contents/es o Help:Manual/es para ayuda de carácter general.
• हिंदी: नीचे अधिमानतः अंग्रेज़ी या विश्व में प्रमुख रूप में प्रयोग होनेवाली अन्य भाषाओं में कुछ भी पूछने में संकोच न करें। विशेष पहुँच का अनुरोध करने के लिए Incubator:Administrators देखें। साधारण सहायता के लिए Help:Contents/hi या Help:Manual/hi देखें।
• Português: Fique à vontade para perguntar seja o que for nesta página, preferencialmente em inglês ou em outro idioma dentre as principais línguas do mundo. Para recuperar sua conta de usuário, ou trocar seu nome de usuário, ver Incubator:Administrators. Veja também Help:Contents/pt ou Help:Manual/pt para ajuda em geral.
• Русский: Смело задавайте свои вопросы ниже, желательно на английском или любом другом из наиболее распространённых языков мира. См. Incubator:Administrators чтобы подать запрос на статус администратора или запросить переименование своего аккаунта. Если нужна помощь, см. Help:Contents/ru или Help:Manual/ru.
• 中文（简体）：您可以随意讨论下列任意事情，建议使用英语及其他世界上的主要语言。前往Incubator:Administrators可以申请成为管理员或重命名账户。前往Help:目录或Help:手册可以获得帮助。
• 中文（繁體）：您可以隨意討論下列任意事情，建議使用英語及其他世界上的主要語言。前往Incubator:Administrators可以申請成為管理員或重命名帳戶。前往Help:目錄或Help:手冊可以獲得幫助。

• العربية: لا تتردد أن تسأل عن أي شيء أدناه، يُفضّل باللغة الإنجليزية أو أيٍّ من لغات العالم الرئيسة. راجع الإداريين لطلب صلاحيات خاصة، مثل صلاحية مدير اختباري. راجع المساعدة أو الدليل للحصول على المساعدة بشكل عام.

In other languages

• अंगिका: नीचें कुछ्छो पूछै लेली स्वतंत्र महसूस करियै, विशेषतः अंग्रेजी मँ या विश्व के कोय भी मुख्य भाषा सिनी मँ । विशेष पहुँच के अनुरोध, जेना कि परीक्षण-व्यवस्थापन, करै वास्तें Incubator:Administrators देखौ। सामान्य तौर पर मदद वास्तें Help:Contents या Help:Manual देखौ।
• অসমীয়া: আপুনি তলত যি কোনো ধৰণৰ প্ৰশ্ন কৰিব পাৰে। ইংৰাজি বা বিশ্বৰ অন্য যি কোনো এটা প্ৰধান ভাষাত প্ৰশ্ন কৰক। কোনো অধিকাৰৰ বাবে বা আপোনাৰ একাউণ্ট পুনঃনামকৰণৰ বাবে Incubator:Administrators চাওক। সাধাৰণ সহায়ৰ বাবে Help:Contents বা Help:Manual চাওক।
• Беларускай: Можаце запытаць усё, што патрэбна, унізе, пажадана па-ангельску ці любой іншай распаўсюджанай мовай сьвету. Каб запытаць спэцыяльныя правы накшталт тэставага адмінства, глядзіце Адміністрацыю. Падрабязная дапамога апісаная ў Зьмесьце ці Кіраўніцтве.
• ⵜⴰⵎⴰⵣⵉⵖⵜ: ⴰⴷ ⵓⵔ ⵜⵔⴽⴽⴻⴽⴷ ⴳ ⵓⵙⵇⵙⵉ ⵅⴼ ⴽⵔⴰ ⵏ ⵜⵖⴰⵡⵙⴰ ⴳ ⵉⵣⴷⴷⴰⵔ, ⵢⵓⴼ ⵙ ⵜⵏⴳⵍⵉⵣⵉⵜ ⵏⵉⵖ ⴽⵔⴰ ⵏ ⵜⵓⵜⵍⴰⵢⵜ ⵜⴰⴳⵔⴰⵖⵍⴰⵏⵜ. ⴱⴰⵛ ⴰⴷ ⵜⵙⵙⴰⵖⵓⵍⴷ ⴰⵎⵉⴹⴰⵏ ⵏⵏⵎ/ⴽ ⵏⵖ ⴰⴷ ⴰⵙ ⵜⴰⵍⵙⴷ ⵉⵙⵎ, ⵥⵔ Incubator:Administrators. ⵥⵔ Help:Contents/fr ⵏⵖ Help:Manual ⵉ ⵜⵡⵉⵙⵉ ⵙ ⵓⵎⴰⵜⴰ.
• بلۏچی: ادا شما تۏن اݔت وتی گپ‌ئا وتی دلء پئیما پہ بلۏچی یا دگہ مزنݔں زبانے بہ لِک اݔت. انکوباتورء سرمستران ئا بہ گند اِت ءُ چہ آیان یک چیزے بہ لۏٹ اݔت. یا Help:Contents یا Help:Manual ئا بہ گند اݔت پہ پݔش آتکان مشکلان.
• کھوار:پسہ کھوار زبانا یا خور کیہ زبانا سوال بشار گانیکو بومی، مزید پسہ. اینکوبیٹر:ایڈمنسٹریٹر یا ایڈیٹراننتے درخاس کوری تان یوزر نامو بدیل کوریکو بومی وا نوغ کھاتہ دی کھولاو کوریکو بومی. مدد:عنوانات یامدد:مینویل مزید مدد دی گانیکو بومی.
• اردو: نیچے کسی بھی قسم کا سوال پوچھنے کے لیے اپنے آپ کو آزاد سمجھیں۔ سوال پوچھنے کے لیے انگریزی یا دنیا کی دوسری اہم زبانوں کا استعمال کریں۔ اپنے اکاؤنٹ کا نام تبدیل کرنے کے لیے Incubator:Administrators دیکھیں۔ مدد کے لیے Help:Contents یا Help:Manual دیکھیں۔
• Cymraeg: Mae croeso i chi ofyn unrhyw beth isod, yn Saesneg neu un o brif ieithoedd eraill y byd yn ddelfrydol. Gweler Incubator:Gweinyddwr i ofyn am fynediad arbennig, fel prawf-edmygedd. Gweler Help:Cynnwys neu Help:Llawlyfr am gymorth yn gyffredinol.
• Deutsch: Fühl dich frei, hier drunter irgendwas zu fragen, wenn möglich auf Englisch oder einer anderen Weltsprache. Für den Erhalt erweiterter Benutzerrechte siehe Incubator:Administrators. Für Hilfe allgemein siehe Help:Contents/de bzw. Help:Manual/de.
• Ελληνικά:Μη διστάσετε να ρωτήσετε τίποτα, κατά προτίμηση στην αγγλική γλώσσα ή σε μία από τις άλλες κύριες γλώσσες του κόσμου. Δείτε Incubator:Administrators για να ζητήσετε να σας μετονομάσουν το λογαριασμό σας. Δείτε Help:Contents/el ή Help:Manual/el για να βοήθηθείτε σε γενικές γραμμές. Καλή συνέχεια!
• Esperanto: Demandu laŭvole en ĉi tiu paĝo, precipe anglalingve, sed ankaŭ en alia el la plej gravaj lingvoj en la mondo. Por rehavi vian uzantokonton, aŭ ŝanĝi vian uzantonomon, vidu Incubator:Administrators. Vidu ankaŭ Help:Contents/eo aŭ Help:Manual/eo por ĝenerala helpo.
• Magyar: Ide fordulhatsz kérdéseiddel – a gyors válasz érdekében viszont érdemes angolul vagy valamelyik világnyelven írnod. Ha meg akarod változtatni a felhasználóneved, vagy valamihez különleges hozzáférést szeretnél, keresd az adminisztárotokat. Érdemes lehet átnézned a súgót és a kézikönyvet is.
• 日本語：以下の質問は、できれば英語か他の主要な言語でお願いします。Incubator:Administratorsを参照して、アクセスを要求したり、アカウント名を変更したりしてください。一般的なヘルプについてはHelp:ContentsやHelp:Manualを参照してください
• Taqbaylit: Ur ttkukru ara ad d-teǧǧeḍ asteqsi ukesser-agi, menyif ad yili s teglizit neɣ s yiwwet seg tutlayin-nniḍen tigraɣlanin tigejdanin. Akken ad d-terreḍ amiḍan-ik n umseqdac neɣ akken ad tsutreḍ abeddel n yisem, ẓer Incubator:Administrators. Ẓer Help:Contents/kab neɣ Help:Manual/kab i tallalt s umata.
• Қазақша: Сұрақтарыңызды қысылмай қоя беріңіз. Сұрақ ағылшын немес басқа да кең таралған тілде болғаны дұрыс. Өз аккаунтыңызды ауыстыру үшін немесе әкімші дәрежесін алу үшін мына бетті қараңыз. Көмек керек болса Help:Contents/kk немес Help:Manual/kk беттерін қараңыз.
• 한국어: 아래 항목에서 영어 또는 세계의 다른 주요 언어로 아무 것이나 물어보세요. 접근을 요청하거나 계정명을 변경하려면 Incubator:Administrators를 참조하세요. 일반적인 도움에 대해서는 Help:Contents이나 Help:Manual을 참조하세요.
• Lingua Franca Nova: No esita fa demandas a su, preferable en engles o un de la otra linguas xef de la mundo. Vide Incubator:Administrators per demanda per asede o per renomi tua conta. Vide Help:Contents/lfn o Help:Manual/lfn per aida jeneral.
• मगही: नीचे कुछो पूछेला सङ्कोच न करी, विशेषतः अङ्ग्रेजी वा बिश्वके कौनो मुख्यभाषामे । बिशेष पहुँचके अनुरोध, जैसे कि परीक्षण-प्रशासक, करेला Incubator:Administrators देखी । सामान्य सहायता लागि सहायता:सामग्री वा सहायता:नियमाबली देखी ।
• မြန်မာဘာသာ။ မေးမြန်းလိုသည်များကို အင်္ဂလိပ်ဘာသာဖြင့်သာမက အခြားကမ္ဘာ့ အဓိကဘာသာစကားများဖြင့် အောက်တွင် လွတ်လပ်စွာ မေးမြန်းနိုင်ပါသည်။ စမ်းသပ်-စီမံခန့်ခွဲသူကဲ့သို့သော အထူးအခွင့်အရေးများတောင်းဆိုရန်အတွက် Incubator:Administrators ကို ကြည့်ပါ။ အထွေထွေ အကူအညီများအတွက် Help:Contents သို့မဟုတ် Help:Manual တွင်ကြည့်ပါ။
• Bân-lâm-gú: Lí ē-sái tī ē-té sûi-chāi thó-lūn jīm-hô tāi-chì, kiàn-gī ēng Eng-gí kap kî-thaⁿ sè-kài siōng ê chú-iàu gí-giân. Chiân-óng Incubator:Administrators ē-tàng sin-chhéng chiâⁿ-chò koán-lí jîn-oân ia̍h-sī tiông-sin thè lí-ê kháu-chō hō-miâ. Chiân-óng Help:Contents kap Help:Manual ē-tàng tit-tio̍h pang-chān.
• नेपाली: तल सकेसम्म अङ्ग्रेजी नत्र विश्वमा बोलिने अन्य कुनै प्रमुख भाषामा केही सोध्नलाई पनि सङ्कोच नमान्नुहोस् । विशेष पहुँचसँग सम्बन्धित अनुरोधका लागि Incubator:Administrators मा जानुहोस् । सामान्य सहयोजका लागि सामान्य मद्दतको लागि Help:Contents/ne वा Help:Manual/ne मा जानुहोस् ।
• pinayuanan: a i maza maqatitjen a kiljavaran tanemanema. nu tja siayaya aicu a kai nua amilika katua zumanga a kai a sipatatevelak nua tjatjuruvu a caucau i kacauan, madjulu itjen a patatevelak. vaiku tua Incubator:Administrators tu kiqaung tua su pinapungadan a kilailaingan. vaiku tua Help:Contents katua Help:Manual tu izua sipasemalaw nua wiki.
• ᱥᱟᱱᱛᱟᱲᱤ: ᱞᱟᱛᱟᱨ ᱨᱮ ᱡᱟᱦᱟᱱᱟᱜ ᱜᱮ ᱤᱸᱞᱤᱥ ᱵᱟᱝᱠᱷᱟᱱ ᱫᱷᱟᱹᱨᱛᱤ ᱨᱮᱱᱟᱜ ᱢᱩᱲᱩᱛ ᱯᱟᱹᱨᱥᱤ ᱛᱮ ᱠᱩᱞᱤ ᱨᱮᱱᱟᱜ ᱯᱷᱩᱨᱜᱹᱞ ᱢᱮᱱᱟᱜ ᱛᱟᱢᱟ ᱾ ᱟᱢᱟᱜ ᱟᱠᱟᱶᱱᱴ ᱧᱩᱛᱩᱢ ᱟᱹᱨᱩ ᱟᱨ ᱥᱮᱴᱮᱨ ᱞᱟᱹᱜᱤᱫ Incubator:Administrators ᱧᱮᱞ ᱢᱮ ᱾ ᱜᱚᱲᱚ ᱦᱚᱪᱚ ᱞᱟᱹᱜᱤᱫ Help:Contents ᱵᱟᱝᱠᱷᱟᱱ Help:Manual ᱧᱮᱞ ᱢᱮ ᱾
• Slovenčina: Vitajte! Tu dole sa môžete voľne spýtať na hocijakú otázku, najlepšie v Angličtine alebo v iných hlavných jazykoch sveta. Ak chcete premenovať svoj redaktorský účet, pozru Incubator:Administrators. Odporúčame pozrieť aj Help:Contents alebo Help:Manual, ktorá vám pomôže zodpovedať vašu otázku.
• Svenska: Fråga gärna om något nedan, helst på engelska eller något annat världsspråk. Se Incubator:Administrators för att be om tillgångar eller för att byta namn på ditt konto. Se Hjälp:Innehåll eller Hjälp:Manual för allmän hjälp.
• Tagalog: Huwag mag-atubiling magtanong sa anumang bagay sa ibaba, mas mabuti sa Ingles o isa sa iba pang mga pangunahing wika sa mundo. Tingnan ang Inkubator: Admimistrador upang humiling ng access o upang palitan ang pangalan ng iyong account. Tingnan ang Tulong: Nilalaman o Tulong: Manual para sa tulong sa pangkalahatan.
• ไทย: คุณสามารถถามอะไรก็ได้ด้านล่างนี้อย่างอิสระ โดยควรจะถามเป็นภาษาอังกฤษหรือภาษาหลักของโลกภาษาหนึ่ง ดูที่ Incubator:Administrators เพื่อขอเข้าถึงหรือเปลี่ยนชื่อบัญชีของคุณ ดูที่ Help:เนื้อหา หรือ Help:คู่มือ สำหรับความช่วยเหลือทั่วไป
• Українська: Сміливо запитуйте нижче, бажано англійською або будь-якою іншою широко поширеною мовою світу. Див. Incubator:Administrators для подання запиту на статус адміністратора або для запиту на перейменування облікового запису користувача. Якщо потрібна допомога, див. Help:Contents/uk або Help:Manual/uk.
• 粵語：閣下想喺道討論乜嘢都得。建議用英文同埋其他主要語言。申請做管理員或者申請改名請去Incubator:Administrators。想獲得幫助請去Help:Contents或者Help:Manual（未有粵語版，歡迎幫手翻譯）。
• ꯃꯤꯇꯩꯂꯣꯟ: ꯃꯈꯥꯒꯤ ꯑꯁꯤꯗ ꯍꯪꯅꯤꯡꯕ ꯍꯪꯕꯗ ꯆꯤꯡꯅꯕ ꯂꯩꯒꯅꯨ, ꯏꯪꯂꯤꯁ ꯇꯥ ꯅꯠꯇ꯭ꯔꯒ ꯃꯥꯂꯦꯝꯒꯤ ꯂꯩꯔꯤꯕ ꯂꯣꯟ ꯃꯌꯥꯝꯁꯤꯡꯗ ꯫ ꯃꯁꯤꯁꯨ ꯌꯦꯡꯉꯨ ꯆꯨꯞꯂꯤ ꯄꯥꯏꯔꯤꯕꯁꯤꯡꯒꯤ ꯑꯈꯟꯅꯕ ꯑꯌꯥꯕꯥ ꯂꯧꯐꯝ Incubator:Administrators ꯇꯦꯁꯠ-ꯑꯦꯗꯃꯤꯅꯑꯣꯢꯅꯕꯒꯤ ꯫ ꯃꯁꯤ ꯌꯦꯡꯎ Help:Contents ꯅꯠꯇ꯭ꯔꯒ Help:Manual ꯃꯇꯦꯡ ꯂꯧꯐꯝꯁꯤꯡ ꯫
• ꠍꠤꠟꠐꠤ꠩ ꠔꠟꠦꠖꠤ ꠀꠙꠘꠦ ꠎꠦꠌꠣꠔꠣ ꠎꠤꠇꠣꠁꠔꠣ ꠙꠣꠞ꠆ꠛꠣ ⁕ ꠀꠋꠞꠦꠎꠤ ꠘꠣ ꠖꠥꠘꠤꠀꠞ ꠎꠦꠌꠣ ꠄꠉꠥ ꠘꠣꠝꠤꠖꠣꠝꠤ ꠝꠣꠔꠦ ꠎꠤꠇꠣꠁꠘ ⁕ ꠀꠞ ꠇꠥꠘ꠆ꠔꠣꠞ ꠟꠣꠉꠤ ꠀꠛꠦꠖꠘ ꠇꠞꠔꠦ ꠌꠣꠁꠟꠦ Incubator:Administrators ꠖꠦꠈꠂꠇ꠆ꠇꠣ ⁕ ꠔꠥꠞꠣꠔꠥꠞꠤ ꠎꠦꠌꠣ ꠡꠣꠎ꠆ꠎꠞ ꠟꠣꠉꠤ Help:Contents ꠀꠞꠘꠣꠄ Help:Manual ꠖꠦꠈꠂꠇ꠆ꠇꠣ ⁕

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Titles that begin with small letters

Hi,

On Wikipedia, titles have to begin with capital letters by default. The only exceptions are some languages where the orthography requires small letters.

As far as I know, on the Incubator, this is not enforced. This may create some issues. For example, the same article may appear twice because of this.

Can this perhaps be enforced? For example, using an abuse filter that prohibits titles that begin with a small letter, or by having a bot that moves articles? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 02:08, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

That's a good idea. The desire to avoid these titles is described in I:CASE. --MF-W {a, b} 10:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I did something related to this a while ago, by moving all pages with (what would be) small letters with my bot; I thought I had added something to enforce it too, but can't seem to find it. At least the AddPrefix gadget takes this into consideration, and adds links with correct capitalization for the start of a title.

@Amire80: Could you please add a Phabricator task for this? I'll see what I can do about it. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T380064 Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 15:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Suppressing namespace replacements

Hi! I don't know this works on this project and may use some help. :) My bot searches for all includes of template:Autoarchive resolved section to do its work. When I open Talk:Wy/syl/ꠝꠥꠟ ꠙꠣꠔꠣ I can see the source code starting with {{Wy/syl/Autoarchive resolved section for a moment. Then it is replaced (by JS?) to just {{Autoarchive resolved section. But here I can see the source code with "Wy/syl" prefix. This explains why my bot fails at this page. How to turn off the replacement for this template (and others)? Euku (talk) 12:47, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Euku: Hi, this is because of the AddPrefix gadget which removes & adds test wiki prefixes (like Wy/syl) as necessary. You can turn the gadget off by visiting the gadget section in Special:Preferences, or you can disable it temporarily by clicking the eye icon that appears when you click the prefix with a strike-through in the edit menu.

I'm curious about how your bot works though. Like you correctly surmised, this replacement is done via JavaScript, so it really shouldn't affect any bots, since bots ought to use the Action API to edit. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 07:39, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

The prefix "Wy/syl/" was added automatically when the user ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ added the template (by JS). But it is not visible to the user. So, I guess the only solution is to let my bot accept all prefixes {{Abc/def/Autoarchive resolved section when it is reading the source code. Euku (talk) 22:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

@Euku: Okay, I understand now. Pages in test wikis (including pages in talk namespaces) here in the Incubator are meant to be compartmentalized, so there are only really two templates that are supposed to work across several test wikis, and they're both special: {{delete}} and {{INTERWIKI}}. We could add "autoarchive resolved section" to that list, but I'm afraid of the implications for that when the test wikis graduate and become independent wikis (since the bot presumably won't work there "out of the box"). Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I already adjusted the parsing for the incubator instance to accept a prefix "abc/zx/". --Euku (talk) 17:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Bot replacement requested

I recently moved a few templates for the Zealandic Wiktionary. More specifically, I moved some makeshift templates I'd made up for western dialects of Dutch lacking their own ISO 639 codes, but which are treated as languages in their own right at this project. The codes I used included nl-OV, nl-BR etc. This is undesirable, since such an extension ought to be reserved for (sub)national variation, nl-BR suggesting "Dutch as spoken in Brazil" rather than the intended Brabantic. ISO 639 does offer room for makeshift codes intended for local use: codes qaa through qtz have purposefully not been allotted to any language. So accordingly, I moved the following templates:

• For Brabantic: template:Wt/zea/nl-BR to template:Wt/zea/qbr
• For Hollandic: template:Wt/zea/nl-HL to template:Wt/zea/qhl
• For Clevelandish: template:Wt/zea/nl-KL to template:Wt/zea/qkl
• For East Flemish (a dialect group spoken in Zealand and therefore of prime importance): template:Wt/zea/nl-OV to template:Wt/zea/qov
• For Hollandic-Frisian mixed dialects: template:Wt/zea/nl-SF to template:Wt/zea/qst (in line with the West Frisian Wiktionary)

Of course, the old templates have been used extensively throughout the project, mainly in translation sections. Could someone replace those links with a bot account? Of course, after the replacing is done, you can dispose of the redirects.

I plan to make similar corrections in the future, especially considering spelling inconsistencies in category names. In line with the famous "give a man a fish ... / teach a man to fish" adage, I will be more than happy if someone showed me the way to a page where I can learn to write such code myself. Thanks in advance. Steinbach (talk) 12:47, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@Steinbach: You don't need to write any code to make such replacements. :-) The way I'm moving these is with Pywikibot's template.py script. You need to use the command line and be familiar with wikitext to use Pywikibot, but no coding is involved. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 14:56, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I later realised "xxx" for multilingual was just as misguided, so I also changed

• template:Wt/zea/xxx to template:Wt/zea/mul.

Kindly request to include this change. Steinbach (talk) 14:27, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

After a week, I would like this request to be interacted with. :( Steinbach (talk) 20:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I missed the request until now, sorry. The move is in progress right now. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 15:05, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Jon Harald Søby:: Thank you very much for your work, and for both replies. Steinbach (talk) 15:50, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Contributions by non-speakers

It sometimes happens on the Incubator that people write the prose of the encyclopedic articles, Wiktionary definitions, Wikivoyage guide pages, etc., even though they don't actually know the language in which the Incubator is supposed to be. These people use machine translation, dictionaries, textbooks, and so on. Quite often they do it in many languages.

Edits by non-speakers can be acceptable for purely technical things, like fixing tables, templates, categories, or other advanced wiki syntax, although even that is debatable. However, it must not be acceptable for prose.

Sometimes contributions by non-speakers are complete, obvious vandalism.

In many other cases, though, these people have good intentions to develop under-resourced languages, but more often than not, it doesn't actually help. Instead, it goes against the whole point of the Incubator, which is to build a community of people who do know the language and can write in it.

I've had casual discussions about this with some serious people who are formally or informally involved in developing languages in the Wikimedia world, and many of them expressed their dissatisfaction with this phenomenon. However, I couldn't find a specific policy that prohibits it on Help:Manual or Incubator:Policy.

Is there an explicit written policy against this?

If not, I propose to add it. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:10, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I sympathize, but how can you make sure that someone is a speaker? Most languages in the Incubator are not supported by any program for automatic translation, so all that's left is writing with the help of a dictionary. Sometimes it is obvious that the "writer" doesn't know the language at all (example), but in other cases it can be hard to distinguish contributions made with the grammar and a dictionary from contributions by a person who is actually learning the language, but who is not very advanced yet (say, A2 or B1). Especially since small projects tend to be welcoming to anybody who wishes to contribute, even if it's people who hardly know the language and whose motivation might be questionable.  IJzeren Jan (besěda) 23:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Discovery and enforcement are separate problems. Bad things should be prohibited even if it's hard to discover them. And actually, identifying them is often very easy. Quite often, those people openly admit it.

Sometimes it is indeed harder, but there should nevertheless be an explicit rule against this, so that:

1. There will be at least some deterrence.
2. When pages, or even whole Incubators, are deleted for this reason, people won't say "we saw others do it and thought that it's OK".

As for your comment about machine translation: I didn't count, and it may be true that most languages in the Incubator are not supported by any program for automatic translation. However, machine translation technologies are growing quickly, and as of November 2024, there are at quite a few languages that are already supported by Google Translate or MinT, and don't have a full-fledged Wikipedia yet: Tiv, Hmong, Acholi, Mizo, and more. They are either already in the Incubator or may come here soon. So this is yet another reason to prohibit it explicitly. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 00:26, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Then I'd rather suggest making it a guideline (for example here) instead of a rule, because a rule should always be unambiguous and enforceable. What level of knowledge would be required for a person to be allowed editing, and who is going to be the judge of that? And what are the consequences if a person who doesn't know the language well enough makes the edits anyway? My point is that there's too much of a grey area here. I'd say, either an article is acceptable (verifiable, notable, neutral, written in an encyclopedic style and in correct language), or it isn't. And if it is, does it really matter who wrote it?  IJzeren Jan (besěda) 22:12, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

In a well-functioning Wikipedia in a certain language, there is a community of people checking each other, so people have to think about verifiability, notability, style, etc.

These things kind of apply to the Incubator, too, but writing in the correct language here is a central part of the goal, more central than in other wikis. To make things even more fun, there are a lot of languages here. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 03:43, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Rather than explicitly write, "If you don't know the language, don't contribute" (or something to that effect), I think it's better to mention what you just wrote above: machine translation and look-in-the-dictionary style writing is not helpful, as it's inaccurate and inefficient. For those who want to help, they could spend their time better on other projects. I would hope that would steer the confused and misguided who want to be helpful toward something more productive. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:31, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I thought about writing both things: something like "If you don't know the language, don't contribute" and give those examples. I also wanted to say that it's not limited to those examples.

And, very importantly, I wanted to add that it's okay to do stuff if you are in contact with people who really speak the language and they agree with this, but it's not okay to just do it quietly without their participation. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

There is no such policy, but I would support it. --MF-W {a, b} 23:45, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I added this:

• on Help:Manual
• on Incubator:Policy

Feel free to edit further. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:02, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Excellent! May I suggest a small expansion of the second point you added to the Manual? You wrote: "The pages are not actually written in the claimed language. This includes pages that purport to be in that language, but are written by people who don't know the language well."

I would suggest changing this to something along the following lines: "[...] but are written by people who clearly don't know the language well, such as pages containing only a template, an image, a single word or an ultrashort sentence."  IJzeren Jan (besěda) 17:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC) (with the latter, I mean of course sentences like "A dog is an animal", "China is a country", etc.)

I think it is completely okay to use machine translation for learners to communicate conveniently with native speakers in Talk pages or in the project's local Village Pump, if it exists. Also some projects may decide to use a "Draft Article" system, which we experimented briefly in the Levantine Arabic Wikipedia, where draft articles are moved to the main space only after they are reviewed and fixed by a proficient speaker. Overall, I think learners should not be completely discouraged from being a part of the community of their incubator project, but rather, they should be channeled to the most productive ways that they could help while learning the language (such as finding new contributors who are proficient in the language, and discussing strategies for doing that in a constructive way). TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 23:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from the Language Diversity Hub

Hi everyone!

We in the Language Diversity Hub are looking for ways to make it easier for contributors in the incubator find people and resources. We want to make a contact form that people can fill out to request meetings, and we would like to share an E-mail address people can use to get in touch with us, so we can connect them further with others.

Would it be OK that we shared this info on the front page of the incubator?

For now the form only exist in English, but we do want to add it in more languages. I wanted to share the link to the form here, but I was blocked by the spam-filter, but it will be shared in more places soon.

BTW, you are all very welcome to sign up to our mailinglist: https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/langdivhub-com.lists.wikimedia.org/

Thanks!

Mali Malikbr (talk) 15:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any of your edits being blocked by the abusefilter [1], but surely you can link to some Meta page that describes the "Language Diversity Hub" and its contact forms? --MF-W {a, b} 23:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, that was unclear. I wanted to share a form with you all in the previous post so you could have seen it, but it was blocked. But then I understand that it is OK that we write something about the LDH on the front page of the incubator and add a link to the mega-page. Thanks again! Malikbr (talk) 08:29, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't really understand what the Language Diversity Hub is (yes, I know the meta pages, but they mostly consist of statements of intention). So I don't know if it is ok to add it to the Main Page, of all places. But surely if you offer help to users, there will be a suitable place to point to it somewhere on Incubator's help pages. --MF-W {a, b} 19:52, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The hub is now in the process of experimenting with how we can be a good connecting and supporting structure for the new and the "young" language communities. A couple of years ago we did interviews with many communities to get a sense of what the main challenge is, you can find that report here. Now we have been spending a lot of time trying to figure out in which end it makes sense that the hub start working. Meanwhile the language team at the WMF is also focusing a lot more on the technical aspects for the new languages.

We want to start offering consultant calls, where we set aside time to understand and hopefully solve some challenges, and also build connections between the more experienced and the new communities. Before these calls we want to understand a little bit more what their main issues are, so we can include experts on that field. This way we hopefully both solve some challenges, and build more connections across communities and we get to continue to document how issues are solved. We are not only targeting communities in the incubator, but it seems like a rational place to offer this type of service.

I take it you are experienced in the incubator, so maybe you would also be interested in being considered as an expert for some of these calls? We have a few others from the Language Committee also involved. Malikbr (talk) 08:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The idea is to offer folks resources and support to help them navigate their language where they are, so we thought we would create a space here (it could be a help sub-page) and have it linked on the home page. Perhaps we can start creating Wikimedia Language Diversity Hub here, and we can start from there? Oscar . (talk) 17:38, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Malikbr and @Oscar ., I would be very interested in learning more about the Hub. It would be really helpful if you could create that page, and I hope the Incubator admins can offer some guidance. Finding contributors for languages that are considered low-resource, especially those with limited written traditions, is quite challenging. Any support or assistance would be greatly appreciated! TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 05:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Clarification on UCoC's application to Incubator projects

Dear Wikimedia Incubator Community,

When searching for the phrase "Wikimedia projects" in the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC), I found 10 matches. I'd like to confirm whether my understanding is accurate regarding the following:

Based on my interpretation, the UCoC applies to all subprojects within the Incubator, regardless of their "Request for new languages" status. This means that every instance where the UCoC mentions a "Wikimedia project", the statement extends to any subproject within the Incubator. (This differs from wikis outside the Wikimedia umbrella, such as Fandom, which are obviously not considered to be Wikimedia Projects by the UCoC.) Is this understanding correct?

I'm tagging some active members of the UCoC coordination committee in case they have additional insights to share. @Ghilt @Ibrahim.ID @Barkeep49

Thank you in advance for your time and guidance.

Best regards, TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 04:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The wording of the UCoC is clear. What is the purpose of your question? --Ghilt (talk) 09:24, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ghilt I wanted to make absolutely sure that every Incubator project is considered a Wikimedia project, as far as the UCoC is concerned. This brings some responsibilities and some protections to the project participants. The disagreements over the precise definitions of those responsibilities and protections are beyond the scope of this question. Additionally, I believe discussing the UCoC is beneficial, and community members should be encouraged not to hesitate in asking any clarifying questions. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 15:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Speaking only for myself, the Universal Code of Conduct is universal across Wikimedia. I am, in general, reluctant to answer hypotheticals. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

To clarify my underlying thoughts, independent of any specific conflict-resolution process I am currently in, I believe that Incubator projects deserve the protection offered by the following principle:

"Mutual support and good citizenship mean taking active responsibility for ensuring that Wikimedia projects are productive, pleasant, and safe spaces, and contribute to the Wikimedia mission."

Inter-project conflicts should be actively prevented. The global community should collectively wish for the success of every Incubator project. Declaring an Incubator project as "unwanted" or "non-grata" is incompatible with the core philosophy of the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC).

If an Incubator project's existence is believed to be in conflict with the Wikimedia mission, there are constructive approaches that are available to enable its closure within Wikimedia. These include presenting policy-based arguments, suggesting policy changes, or submitting a request to the ISO committee to propose merging specific language codes. (E.g. this request was accepted by ISO and prevented the possibility of two separate Incubator Wikis for North and South Levantine Arabic.) All of these approaches are acceptable. However, other approaches, such as declaring the supporters to belong to "evil political ideologies"; or abusing power to add unreasonable obstacles are not considered constructive.

I am curious to hear the Incubator community's as well as the U4C committee's thoughts. TheJoyfulTentmaker (talk) 03:50, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

失礼します

アイヌ語版ウィクショナリーを作成しようとしている者です。どうしてもわかりません。 ノートページに乗り込んで教えていただけませんか。

＜途中＞ 新しいウィキリクエスト | ステータス = オープン | 言語コード = ain |言語コード3 = オフ | language_English = アイヌ語 | language_native = アイヌ語 |言語_ウィキデータ= Q150 | new_language = no | 方向 = LTR | プロジェクト_英語 = Wiktionary |プロジェクトネイティブ = ウィクショナリー | ns_プロジェクト = | ns_project_talk = | enable_upload = いいえ | ロゴ = ファイル: | タイムゾーン = 日本/北海道 | 名前空間の追加 = | 設定を追加 = | category =

なってます。教えていただけませんか。よろしくお願いします。--ホーピィ (talk) 12:12, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

何がわからないのか、もう少し明確にしていただけますでしょうか？ Syunsyunminmin (talk) 11:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

すみません、大丈夫でした。--ホーピィ (talk) 06:01, 23 November 2024 (UTC)