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Archive Archives


See /Archive

Main PageEdit

Evertype pointed out to me that our Main Page has the rather important list of wikis not very high up the page, so I made this edit to switch it to being above the "how to" section, instead of below it. Please revert me if you disagree, but I wanted to be bold. I was also thinking of how we could improve the page even more. Maybe we should move the "other languages" section somewhere else (e.g. to the bottom, as done on Meta?) It would be unusual to do so on a Special:Translate-translated page, but not impossible. We could also implement the code which hides the page name of the main page, like on en.wiki and Meta. --MF-W {a, b} 22:44, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

@MF-Warburg: I think this is an improvement. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:49, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
Good idea. No reason we can't suppress the page name, either.
I'm going to try to shrink the size of the languages section without moving it; everyone tell me what you think. StevenJ81 (talk) 03:59, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
It's an improvement, but the list of languages is still too long, IMHO. It's a good problem to have though :P
I now moved it to the bottom and added [1] to the common.css to hide the title. --MF-W {a, b} 12:39, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
I added a small link so people who want a different language can find it easily. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:43, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

I actually disagree with hiding of any page title. There is no reasonable basis for that and it is against accessibility and usability principles. (Besides it has been hidden only on English page anyway...) So I am going to rollback the relevant change.
I also do not agree that the list of wikis (in fact it is 1. highly incomplete information, 2. unknown selection criteria on which wiki is why mentioned, 3. it is rather Incubator internal issue than something promotable) is more important than information on how to contribute (isn't exactly necessity of creating of the new wiki why people typically get here?) and thus needs larger and more prominent box, however, since the main page needs more attention than just swapping of these boxes anyway, I'll leave it for now and will come with more complex proposal later on.
The code after changes is however invalid and semantically incorrect and needs to be fixed (I'll work on it later on this weekend) as well as "click here" (one of the most often mistakes in creating webs, against accessibility, usability and SEO) needs to be rephrased. I suggest something like "See the translations of this page" or "Change the language" (the point is, that the link text must express what it does, where it links to, rather than nothing-saying meaningless "click here". Feel free to rephrase, but omit the "click here", please.
Note on proper page creation: Content first, then design. Design must be adapted to the desired content and not vice versa. Otherwise it leads to filling of the page with useless crap and leaves bunch of omittable whitespace blocks.
Danny B. 12:27, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Of course there is a reasonable basis for that: it hides unnecessary stuff. Which "accessiblity and usability principles" do you mean? It's true that it is at the moment not hidden on the subpages. That's a problem that can be solved in some way probably.
The list of wikis is not an internal issue. When people come to Incubator in search of a certain project because they were told it exists here, it will be helpful to them to see the list at a prominent place.
Your criticism about "click here" seems like a non-existing problem. "Click here" is a very easily understood concept. --MF-W {a, b} 15:57, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply.
What actually makes the title unnecessary? Why is it unnecessary on main page and not on other pages? Also please note, that not everybody uses visual graphical user agents...
As I pointed out earlier, the list is highly incomplete. When people come to Incubator in search of a certain project because they were told it exists here, it will be helpful to them to see the list at a prominent place. - There is currently only 13 out of 640 test wikis listed there, so they do not see the list, but its tiny tiny excerpt. The criteria for inclusion of test wiki on that tiny excerpt are unclear. Dividing into sections like "might get their own site soon" and "will likely stay here" is rather Incubator internal division until the list will be generated automatically on the basis of exact criteria.
My notes about "click here" are not criticism, but reminding of the best practices as well as principles of accessibility, usability and SEO. Please check the dedicated W3C Quality Assurance page, Jukka “Yucca” Korpela overview or many other documents on this for further details.
Danny B. 20:05, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
I placed the "click here". I'm not a web designer, and it's perfectly fine with me if you want to change the language. I just wanted some functionality so that people could easily get to the language change area. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:32, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I think the title is unnecessary on most pages, but especially on the main page, as nobody will memorize the title of the main page to get there, but just click a link in the top-left corner of the page (when on Incubator) or by accessing incubator.wikimedia.org / :incubator: when coming from somewhere else. What is a visual graphical user agent? - Yes, the list is only a selection, but that selection should have the most active test-wikis, and these are therefore the ones that users who come to the main page looking for a wiki because they were told it is on Incubator will most likely look for. Also the link to the complete list is there immediately as well. --MF-W {a, b} 22:53, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

@MF-Warburg: FWIW, the page title (both here and on Meta) is only suppressed in English. If you choose another language, the page title remains. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:05, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Two Wiktionaries and one Wikinews which are seem to be locally handled(?)Edit

I'm not willing to nominate those for deletion for now, but

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:05, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Good catch, Liuxinyu970226!
Re the second and third point: I guess we can't limit the local Wikipedias to omit creation of such "subprojects" there if they want to do so. However, we can advocate that it is not the best approach, since per current rules, wikis can't be created if not having enough activity and content in Incubator, thus from this particular point of view it is useless work. There are also some further shortcomings of such approach, such as no chance for linking via [[<project>:<language>:<page>]] links, since such links for inexisting wikis point to relevant incubated wiki here in Incubator. We can also recommend to involved communities importing of those local subprojects here to relevant incubated wikis as well as probably they'll need some explanation of why it is better approach.
Re the first point: als is actually code for Tosk Albanian so this should be handled more complexly.
Danny B. 12:42, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, some communities decided to have their "sister project content" in their Wikipedia, instead of starting a test-project. In cases like alswiki, IIRC the sister projects which were inactive were even explicitly closed with the idea of moving the pages to a Wikipedia namespace, instead of Incubator. So these communities don't really seek a new subdomain anyway, which is why it makes more sense for them to use Wikipedia and not Incubator. We cannot hinder them; but maybe it would make sense to refer to such "subprojects" from the Incubator info pages. --MF-W {a, b} 16:00, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
Look, concerning als vs. gsw, that's phab:T25215. Until that gets resolved, it is what it is, and we can't really do anything about it.
As far as the rest go:
  • Functionally, als and gsw are currently the same thing in the Wikimedia world, which makes Wt/gsw a duplicate of als:Wort:Houptsyte. Does LangCom want to allow a duplicate project here? If not, let's get rid of Wt/gsw. It has only one page right now, a very small main page. I can easily enough duplicate the current contents of Wt/als at Wt/gsw (without the references to Tosk Albanian, of course).
Of course, I can also do the same with other subdomains.
  • As far as the [[<project>:<language>:<page>]] links, I don't see why those wouldn't still work (other than the ones in the left navbar, and maybe even those). Can't we simply point [[:wikt:als:<wort>]] to [[:als:Wort:<wort>]]?
  • Wn/nds hasn't had an edit since 2013. There are about five pages here. If the project is active at nds:Portal:Wikinews, wny don't we simply direct people there?
  • Similarly, Wt/lzh hasn't had an edit since 2013, other than a couple of clerking edits by Liuxinyu and me. So, again, if the namespace version on lzh: is working, why not point people there? (In this case, it also navigates around WMF's preference to minimize new subdomains for non-modern versions of languages. By policy, a Wiktionary in lzh ought to be placed either inside zh:wikt: or inside lzh:. Personally, I don't care which.) StevenJ81 (talk) 19:30, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
The task number is obviously wrong, can you please fix it? Thanks.
Re the pointing - that's what I was exactly talking about with my "[[<project>:<language>:<page>]]" note: Everybody expects [[wikt:als:Entry]] to point to als.wiktionary.org/wiki/Entry or in case of inexistence of the domain to the Incubator's Wt/als/Entry. Same applies to any other combination of project and language, I just continued in combination you started. That's how the system works and that's how you can use the interwikilinks. However, if you now want to link the entry, you have to use [[w:als:Wort:Entry]], because the expectable [[wikt:als:Entry]] leads to the black hole. Same applies to other languages with local subprojects. The main point is, that it is not so easy (and definitely not preferred to create exceptions) to change the navigation system to point the standard prefix combination in interwikilink to other than one of those two locations I mentioned (standard wiki or Incubator fallback).
Of course, if there are local subprojects on existing wikis, which are more or less actively maintained, that then there won't likely be (m)any edits here on Incubator.
For the record, could you please link to the WMF's preference and policy you mentioned? Thank you.
Danny B. 11:26, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
I second the idea of referring the local subprojects from Incubator's project root pages (not main pages), ie. Wx/xx, not Wx/xx/Main Page. On the other hand I also prefer to do it the way it is purely informative (and emphasizing it is an exception) and not encouraging to do the same on other projects too. How would you prefer to have such note incorporated in existing templates? Also should such test wikis be marked "open" or "approved" then?
Danny B. 11:39, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Task number fixed (reversed two digits). Sorry.
  • The policy I was mentioning was based on m:Language proposal policy#Requisites for eligibility, item #4, and the discussion of "Ancient or historical languages" farther down that page. Taken strictly, it means that LangCom would want any further lzh projects to be contained within larger zh projects—similarly grc projects within larger el projects, and so forth. (Taken just a touch less strictly, an lzh Wiktionary could be contained within lzh Wikipedia.)
    In practice, I'm getting the sense there may be a little more tolerance for Wikipedias, at least, in ancient and historical languages that have an established literary grounding—meaning that nobody is creating or imagining new writing systems for them. That's why I said "preference" and "minimizing" rather than "rule" and "eliminating".
  • As far as marking the wikis goes, I've been taking the position on root pages that |status=open always means there's a test open and running here on Incubator, while |status=approved always means that the project originated as a test here, then was approved and exported (or at least has its export pending). Other such root pages don't even call {{Test wiki}}, so you don't have to modify the coding at all. Instead, they get {{code-disambig}} or one of its daughter templates (like {{Different code/test}} and {{Different code/subdomain}}). These place the root pages within Category:Incubator:Test wikis/code/... subcategories, but leave them out of Category:Incubator:Test wikis/status/... subcategories. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:52, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Action itemsEdit

  1. @MF-Warburg, you could act on the proposal at m:Proposals for closing projects/Deletion of Alemannisch Wiktionary, Wikibooks and Wikiquote with very little fuss, I think. How high a priority it ought to be at Phabricator is a different question, but there's no reason you can't formally approve the proposal and get it rolling.
  2. Question for you, MF-W: Do you know if the Alemannic projects include schweizerdeutsch content? If so, I would SD the single page at Wt/gsw and direct people to contribute at als:Wort:Houptsyte. If not, I'd probably at least have to nominate at RfD. Note that the page was created last year by an IP that is associated with a grand total of three edits across all projects.
      Done The Alemannic projects do include schweizerdeutsch content. So I did delete the little bit of content at Wt/gsw and put a pointer at the root page. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
  3. To someone reasonably close to nds (maybe MF-W, maybe @SPQRobin, De Wikischim, LIVE NIEUWS): Please have a look and tell me if there is anything useful at Wn/nds. Given that it's a Wikinews project and hasn't been edited in four years, I think that if the content is obsolete (which is distinctly possible), we could just SD it on those grounds and then direct people to the Portal page at nds:.
      Done See below. Content at Wn/nds was deleted, and a pointer put at the root page. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
  4. @Liuxinyu970226, Hydriz: Maybe one of you can respond: is lzh:維基大典:維基爾雅 active now? If so, perhaps you (or someone there) can figure out if there is any content at Wt/lzh that can be productively moved there. Once that happens, we can redirect people there on the root pages, while for attribution reasons turning all the content pages at Wt/lzh into soft redirects. If there is no useful content there, I'd probably open up an RfD for that one. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:02, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
    Sorry, I am not involved in any way at all with Wikinews-nds, only with Wikinews-nl. De Wikischim (talk) 20:14, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
    @De Wikischim: No, I understand that. I just wondered if you were familiar enough with the language to tell us if there was anything useful there. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:46, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
    @StevenJ81: Neither lzh:維基大典:維基爾雅 nor Wt/lzh is active... Now lzh:維基大典:維基爾雅 is designed for difficult characters. However, I think that the classical Chinese community is too small to maintain a dictionary. --Amanojaku (talk) 05:05, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
    All pages on Wt/lzh already existed on lzh:維基大典:維基爾雅. Tt is probably safe to delete everything in the Wt/lzh test wiki. --Hydriz (talk) 08:37, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
So I agree StevenJ81, 逆襲的天邪鬼, and Hydriz that both Wt/gsw and Wt/lzh are very inactive, and should be 1) all related pages except themselves deleted and 2) themselves replaced by a custom {{Code-disambig}}. For Wn/nds, I prefer to ask @Bolingbroke, HeikoEvermann, Iwoelbern, Slomox: (4 sysops of nds.wikipedia). --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:45, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks to all for input. I will go ahead and SD the pages of Wt/lzh, pointing people toward both lzh:維基大典:維基爾雅 and zh:wikt:. I still look forward to the rest of the input I requested. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:06, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
  Done Deleted content at Wt/lzh and placed a pointer there. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
@StevenJ81:, thank you for the notification! I just looked to the NDS Wikinews but have not found anything that is useful for the Wikinews in Dutch. Also, West Low German is not a language that I speak. It's more for people from the Northern of the Netherlands, I'm living in Belgium. Livenws (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Wn/nds can be deleted. The few pages are just copied and pasted from nds:Portal:Wikinews. I don't know why the IP did this in 2010, but the right place for the content is nds:Portal:Wikinews. --::Slomox:: >< 15:31, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Kabiye word 'Lɩŋamɩŋ'Edit

In the draft category list there is a word 'Lɩŋamɩŋ' translated as Lake(En)/Lac(Fr). However in the Kabiye dictionary the spelling appears to be different ('Lɩŋgamɩŋ'). Please could someone tell me which is correct? Thanks Ken — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Atticmaker (discussioncontribs) 15:52, 12 April 2017‎ (UTC).

Pinging @Gnangbade for an answer. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:13, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Atticmaker Lɩŋamɩŋ is the correct spelling. The dictionary sometimes doesn't follow its own spelling rules. Gnangbade (talk) 19:56, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Updates to Javascript code for test wiki administratorsEdit

I have improved the Javascript code for test wiki administrators in this change. This makes it easier for Incubator administrators to update the list of test wiki administrators and the test wikis that they are allowed to act on, as only one page (which is MediaWiki:Administrated test wikis.json) only needs to be edited. If you encounter any problems because of this change, please do report them here, or directly to me on my talk page. Thanks! --Hydriz (talk) 08:33, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

This is exactly why I created MediaWiki:Administrated test wikis.json, so it is managed on single place but reusable on many, so thanks for the refactorization of your script. Good job!
Danny B. 11:07, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Fantastic! Thank you, Hydriz.
Danny B., this means that if we were to list ourselves on the .json, we'd constantly get those warning messages when editing outside our designated tests. That's a nuisance more than anything else. But perhaps something you could do—since you created Module:Test wikis—would be to allow for optional manual input of a |testadmin = on test wiki root pages for this purpose, always in addition to whatever the .json delivers there. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:13, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
That's actually incorrect presumption. If I an mot mistaken, the script is loaded for test-admins only, therefore pure listing of username in the json wouldn't trigger anything. You would have to be the member of test-administrators usergroup at first so this script would be loaded for you. Therefore the objection is unjustified. And even if it was loaded for every admin, it would of course not mean that, because the simple condition to ignore Incubator admins can be added, which is trivial...
Please mind, that complex data can always be filtered to the narrower dataset, but not only you never can use data which don't exist, but it's also virtually impossible to artificially create them.
The MediaWiki:Administrated test wikis.json was created for purpose of having the only and only single place to store test-admins. Having other places such as overrides in templates goes against the basic principle of the solution, creates the data redundancy and mess, and makes the whole thing less transparent and worse manageable.
Danny B. 15:09, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
I take your point overall. But ... I thought the running of that script was based on the names of the people in the script—formerly a hard-coded list, now the import from the .json. If so, then if an administrator is in the .json, then the script will run, unless it is told separately to ignore us. If it depends on our having the test-admin bit, then if (and only if) we "double-flag", again the script will run unless it is told separately to ignore us. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:16, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
The assumption is one thing, the reality typically differs, like in this case. ;-)
Anyway, whether it depends on listing in json or on the group membership, in both case it is easily solvable by adding simple condition to handle Incubator admins, so I am honestly kind of missing the sense/point of what you just wrote.
In any case, such easily solvable triviality should not be a blocker for further development aiming to simplify things.
Danny B. 15:39, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
I wasn't suggesting it should block further development. I am just suggesting that I, personally, will find seeing those messages annoying, even if I'm allowed to ignore them. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:06, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
I am confused. Which messages?
Danny B. 17:37, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
The ones from MediaWiki:Group-test-sysop.js that a test administrator sees when doing an administrative action outside his designated test. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:15, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the script is only loaded for members of the test-sysop group, but aren't you currently arguing for the Incubator sysops in question to also have the test-sysop group? --MF-W {a, b} 22:43, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
Just to clarify: I'm not arguing for that. I'm only arguing to allow sysops to list themselves (at the .json file) as substantially acting in the role of test-admin for certain projects, so less experienced contributors to those tests have someone knowledgeable about that test to seek out. I do not favor giving the two flags simultaneously. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:14, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
[Yes, that is why my answer is indented to appear as a response to Danny B. --MF-W {a, b} 17:17, 19 April 2017 (UTC)]

Just checked it all out, temporarily listing myself on the .json for test Wb/lad with expiration date "never" (also "Never", and both seemed to work fine). At the same time, I also flagged my alternate account (User:SJ81) as a test administrator for Wt/lad, with expiration date 2017-04-30. Everything seemed to work exactly the way it was supposed to in every case. Thank you, Hydriz! (Note: I've also reversed all the flags and listings for now.) StevenJ81 (talk) 18:13, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Request (Khowar Keyboard)Edit

@StevenJ81: @MF-Warburg:Please enable this khowar keyboard [2] in incubator project for writing khowar articles in Khowar Wikipedia [Wp/khw] incubator project, the community of this language pointed out that putting [wp/khw] before every khowar article is complicated and time consuming, if we write this i.e. ویکیپیڈیا instead of Wp/khw/ویکیپیڈیا it shows unprefixed error and the new khowar users are unable to contribute khowar wikipedia due to [wp/khw], if this keyboard is enabled then the khowar typing will be easy and many more users directly contribute to this project, how can this Gadget be inserted in local js? I need help. Regards --Rehmat Aziz Chitrali Linguist 05:19, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

@Rachitrali: I asked you previously to load it into your own personal .js file(s) so we could make sure it works at all before I start thinking about doing anything else. Did you do that? Do you need help with that? StevenJ81 (talk) 15:16, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Let me add: the idea of needing to put Wp/khw is not negotiable. On Incubator pages need to be prefixed. Now, there is a gadget already available (the "AddPrefix" gadget) that will automatically add prefixes when people place links, templates, etc. Please have everyone in your test community go to the Gadgets page in "Preferences" and activate that gadget. It will make everyone's life easier.
If we ever get to the point of trying to make the Khowar keyboard a true gadget, we'll have to see if these two gadgets are consistent with each other. But we're not even up to that yet. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:19, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: sir, added to my personal js here [3] please check this. Not working now, Regards --Rehmat Aziz Chitrali Linguist 17:37, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@Rachitrali: Try it now. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:40, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@StevenJ81: sir, tried my best, but failed to enable, please check to your own js that this is working or not? Is incubator project support local js? __RAChitrali 17:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@Rachitrali: I don't know what it's supposed to do even if I try to activate it in my own js. Would I then have to hit a hotkey to activate it? Does it only work on Khowar pages? I'm not a big expert on this. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:58, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@StevenJ81: sir let me know the technical person or expert in this field who enable this to Incubator project not only for Khowar but this will help Urdu, Punjabi, Farsi and Yidgha languages, Regards --RAChitrali 18:05, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@Rachitrali: Please first answer my question: If this script works the way it's supposed to, what is supposed to happen? What will I see? Where will I see it? When will I see it? StevenJ81 (talk) 18:30, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@StevenJ81:Sir, due to unavailability of Khowar Text Editor in Incubator the khowar contributors are unable to contribute Khowar Wikipedia but they use my Khowar Keyboard [4] by cut pasting articles into Khowar Wikipedia, this is a time consuming situation, now the Khowar Community requested the Incubator Administrators and Syosps to enable Khowar phonetic keyboard in Incubator wiki so that they can contribute and write khowar articles directly in Khowar Wikipedia, i checked this to my local js, but unable to activate, we want to write khowar directly in Incubator. Is this possible? Regards --RAChitrali 18:40, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@Rachitrali: Sir: I understand precisely what you just told me. But I am starting to think I have completely misunderstood what was in the javascript file you asked me to copy here—the one now located at MediaWiki:Wp/khw/Gadget-khw-phonetic.js.
I thought that what I copied was simply a virtual keyboard that you had designed so that it would virtually type directly into the Wikipedia (or Incubator) edit box. In fact, what I copied was essentially a duplicate of the branah.com page—a stand alone tool from which you would have to cut-and-paste into Wikipedia or Incubator. Is that right?
If that's so, we've been talking at completely cross purposes. I would need to ask someone who is far more of an expert than I am at Javascript to completely rewrite your script for that purpose. Is that what you are asking for?
Note: even if we get this script working, you cannot make it available to an Urdu, Punjabi, or any other language project until they tell us they're interested. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
@StevenJ81: Sir, Please check this (File:How can we enable Khowar Lanaguage keyboard for Khowar Wikipedia like Urdu Wikipedia.png) we want to write in khowar like this, and want to search khowar articles in the search box like above link, many languages in Urdu Wikipedia, English Wikipedia are enabled except Khowar language, please add khowar language i.e. khw in the search button so that the khowar editors easily create, edit and search article like in Urdu Wikipedia, the local js file is not working properly, I trying my best to enable the khowar keyboard in the incubator project. Regards --RAChitrali 04:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
@Rachitrali: I'm glad we finally sorted this out. For this you must go to Phabricator—in particular, phab:tag/MediaWiki-extensions-UniversalLanguageSelector—and create a task there. This is not something that can be done locally on Incubator. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:05, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
@StevenJ81: Sir due to some technical and login error i am unable to create the task at Phabricator, Would you please create this for us? If possible.Regards--RAChitrali 15:11, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
@Rachitrali: I will try to do so next week. I wonder if you were blocked on phabricator for playing with the project status around Khowar Wikipedia; I'll check. However, I can do no more than to open a task. If the developers want to talk to anyone, they need to talk to you. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:21, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Rachitrali: For now I'm not going to submit this at phabricator. Whether it's fair or not, there's not a big reservoir of goodwill toward you right now. I suggest that if you really want to make this project happen, you take a very low profile, don't worry about adding keyboards (and alphabet glyphs) that some people find controversial, and just go on building your test project. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:51, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your valued suggestions--RAChitrali 17:36, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Request (Wp/inh)Edit

Please help Wp/inh! For a long time our project remained inactive. However, during more than a year, the project is actively developing. We have done a lot in that time. We have nearly 900 articles. Made categorization, develop templates, and more. Wikipedia Ingush was launched in test mode in 2007. 10 years already! Please pay attention to our section. Ingush Wikipedia has a right to be approved and have its own domain. We Hope for your help. And if we have mistakes, then I ask you to show us, advise what to do next. Thanks. Sincerely, Adam-Yourist (talk) 16:13, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi, @Adam-Yourist. I'll nudge them a little. But I do know that the last time the LangCom discussed your project, one member had a concern that there were too many stubs and not enough true article content. So look through your test, and if you're satisfied that you no longer have that problem, let me know. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:54, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
Hi again, Adam-Yourist. I just went to your test, clicked on "Random page" ten times, and got ten stubs. If members of the Language Committee do that, they won't think you're ready for your own domain. I would strongly encourage you to focus more on making more complete pages and less on making lots of little stubs. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:05, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

How do I create pages equivalent to Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Spelling for Wp/kha?Edit

Hi, so although no one is working on this project right now except me, I would still like to make a manual of style for others with regards to spelling because written Khasi sometimes doesn't have a fixed spelling. I would like to follow a standard spelling system for this wiki, so how do I create one? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tipshuh (discussioncontribs) 09:46, 25 April 2017 (UTC).

@Tipshuh: Is there no standard or are there multiple standards? One thing I would recommend is that if a certain style is already established in an article, that style should remain for that article--otherwise, you will have edit-warring over very small content issues. —Justin (koavf)TCM 15:24, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
@Tipshuh, Koavf: That much is true. English Wikipedia had to set specific rules on use of US vs. UK spelling conventions. On Ladino Wikipedia we deal with several different spelling conventions, and the main rule for us is "don't change the page". On a project like yours, encouraging contributions is much more important than pure spelling consistency. Don't do anything that discourages potential contributors from participating.
I would add the following further suggestions.
  • First: Don't make it up. If there is really a well-sourced standard to use, I would encourage you to document it and use it. If there is such a source and you decide to ignore it, then in the future someone may try to come in and impose the standard on you, and you may not have sufficient grounds to stop it.
  • Second: Allow for both Latin and Bengali script. If there is a standard conversion table between them, then use the Latin script of the standard conversion table, because it will make life a lot easier when you wish to implement a conversion tool. If there is not a standard conversion table, you can still include pages in both scripts. See, as an example, lad:Astronomiya and lad:אסטרונומייה, where we have tabs between parallel pages.
Hope that helps. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:50, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
@Koavf, StevenJ81:OK thanks for your input. I think I'll stay away from making this page for now because firstly, I think spelling consistency is less important than contributions, and secondly, I am not the authority to impose a spelling standard even though I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Nevertheless, it's still very important to bring this up at some point in time and I'll make sure that I have the proper authority backing me. As for allowing for both Latin and Bengali scripts, the problem is that the majority of the native speakers like me from Meghalaya have no knowledge whatsoever of the Bengali script, although I'm sure there must be someone who does. I'll let you know when I catch hold of someone like that so we can get a conversion tool.
Tipshuh (talk) 16:05, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Template Translation for IncubatorEdit

I am unable to translate this template: fr:Modèle:Infobox Graphème into english and khowar. Can anybody translate this from french language to english. This template is necessary for creating pages of six uniquely pronounced special characters of Khowar Language, Please translate this into english so that i'll translate this into Khowar language. This template is only available in French Wikipedia. Regards -- RAChitrali 01:41, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
I'll try to tackle in the next day or two. What I think I'd like to do is this:
  • You create a template page in the Khowar test where you would like this to go. (You can create it with simple text like "placeholder".)
  • I will import the template from French Wikipedia, then translate it in place into English.
  • Then you translate it in place to Khowar.
OK? StevenJ81 (talk) 14:02, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
@Rachitrali:   Doing...  Didn't hear from you. Imported to User:StevenJ81/Modèle:Infobox Graphème along with a documentation subpage. This will take a while; please be patient. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:49, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
I want to create in khowar like this[5] Thanks --RAChitrali 15:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Where can I request to test my bot?Edit

R96340 (talk) 07:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure what your bot does, but the usual place to test things like that is not Incubator, but rather one of the test platforms, like Test Wikipedia. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:31, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

I want to import 20 000 word to arq wiktionaryEdit

Hi i want to create approximately 20000 articles with autowikibrowser - :My question is : is the auto creation without restriction or we should to create or we do not must exceed a predefined number per minute ? --Bachounda (talk) 15:11, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

I tried doing a similar thing on arq Wiktionary before (~100 words), however, I regretted it. There is no standard orthography, you might change your mind later on as I did. You might also want to change the layout of entries. My suggestion is to try doing it manually. You will encounter some problems and you'll do some changes along the way.
P.S: Apparently you have already done that. However, words are not spelled correctly, for instance, هواء should be spelled هوا because there is no glottal stop in Darja. Another example is هواء المضغوط, the definite article ǝl- here is incorrect. Furthermore, the layout needs improvement. Finally, all the articles that you created are using unprefixed templates.
Given all these reasons, I suggest that you don't do it this way. Or at least, standardize the orthography and decide on a good entry layout before importing the words. You might also want to add definitions or at least one example to every word. The lack of a standard spelling system is what made me stop from contributing to the project temporarily. --GeekEmad (talk) 16:12, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
thank you for the message talk . si vous avez du temps on pourra discuter en directe et se mettre d'accord car j'ai ce fichier depuis il ya de cela 3 ans et je n'ai qu'une envie c'est de le mette en partage libre, une discussion approfondie s'impose, في أقرب وقت --Bachounda (talk) 21:41, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

More on Main PageEdit

Given what we do here, I think we ought to change the "Wikisource" link on the bottom of the main page from English Wikisource to Old (Multilingual) Wikisource. Any thoughts?

I'm not sure one way or the other about Wikiversity, especially given that Beta Wikiversity might be on its last legs. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:43, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Problem creating "Main category" for two projects in same languageEdit

I am working on two test projects and but I'm unable to create a main category for one of them. Category:Wp/dag is okay but when I try to create Category:Wk/dag it says "There is a page named "Category:Wp/dag/Wk/dag" on this wiki.", which is not what I want. There is no red link for me to follow to create Category:Wk/dag. -—M@sssly 09:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

@Masssly: Wk is not a valid project type here, so that's why you're having a problem. Your choices are Wp (Wikipedia), Wt (Wiktionary), Wb (Wikibooks), Wq (Wikiquote), Wn (Wikinews) and Wy (Wikivoyage). Try one of those and let me know if there's a further problem. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:16, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
OK. I looked inside and saw what you tried to do. We don't usually do that, but I went ahead and moved your "Wp/dag/Wk/dag" to Category:Incubator:Test wikis/Dagbani tests, and also created Category:Wt/dag. See if you think I got this right. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:58, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Exactly what I wanted StevenJ81, thanks. A lot I still have to learn here :-) —M@sssly 16:48, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Most of the time we don't create combination categories for all the projects of a single language. You can navigate between them easily enough from the root pages (Wp/dag, Wt/dag). To the extent it happens, it happens the way I did it—and you wouldn't have been able to create that category, because it's an unprefixed category page.
Anyway, welcome, and feel free to ask if you have any questions. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:50, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

An incubator with a lot of empty or nearly-empty pagesEdit

I was sad to discover today that the Bodo Wikipedia incubator (Wp/brx) consists of a lot of empty or mostly-empty pages.

I started marking them for deletion, but gave up after a bunch. There must be a better way to deal with this.

I'm not sure what it is though. The page title might be good, but are they actually useful? Probably not. Or should somebody with administrative rights just delete them directly without adding templates? Or maybe I'm exaggerating and they shouldn't be deleted at all?

Thanks! --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:38, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

@Amire80: Other than something outright illegal or untrue, why delete anything from the Incubator? —Justin (koavf)TCM 18:43, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
One of the things that the Language committee checks before approving a project is the activity. There are many edits and pages, but very little content, so the current number is misleading. Also, "No meaningful content or history" is #1 in the Speedy deletion criteria. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 21:29, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
@Amire80: Of course it will never graduate from Incubator with a bunch of semi-empty pages but it also won't get approved by deleting them. Someone will make these pages sooner or later and if there's at least something there, it's that much less work to get started in the future. I don't think that content should be deleted from Incubator minus a few issues like doxxing or pages which are links to malware. Even more-or-less blank pages turn redlinks blue which is a start. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:55, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
Indeed. Before approval, wikis are thoroughly checked on contents. As most wikis even require an expert to confirm whether it is actually written in the supposed language, any wrong or empty content-wikis are clearly filtered out. --OWTB (talk) 12:44, 27 May 2017 (UTC)