Incubator:Requests for deletions/Requests

RequestsEdit

Wp/enmEdit

The Middle English Incubator has been largely abandoned by the project creators, appearing now to be headed by a "CanadianToast", who doesn't claim any level of literacy in the language. It is being completely overrun by "meme" edits and inaccurate language. I couldnt find a single editor who advertises any understanding of the language. The few pages that do exist, are largely inaccurate, minuscule, or irrelevant. 46.208.10.44 14:02, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Keep - Instead of complaining and trying to delete the entire project you could just contribute to it. The way you're speaking makes it seem like you are knowledgeable in Middle English and could help fix issues. That is a whole lot better than getting rid of everything so many people have spent time building. It's not that hard to mend 100 articles. I'm a newer learner of Middle English, and I understand that some of my edits may not be accurate but I welcome any and all corrections to my work. This project has been inactive for some time, and myself and a few other editors are doing our best to revive it. --CanadianToast (talk) 19:47, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Fixing the existing pages isn't practical currently in my opinion, all it takes is a "Frogge / Dogge / Pigge" comedy video going viral again, and you'll immediately have dozens of people making non-serious edits for their own fun. Without fluent moderation to prevent that, it just allows a free-for-all to take place, leading to the Incubator looking extremely unprofessional and unappealing for more fluent users. Barring an extreme change to the method of moderation, I don't see a positive reason for the continued existence of the project, thus my request. --46.208.10.44 22:53, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Just look in the recent changes, most of the changes are not joke edits and those that are get reverted. Btw, you can revert those joke edits yourself if you notice them. Also, you can ask an admin to ban the users who vandalize. Fixing the existing pages is very practical and is happening. Also, Middle English Wikipedia grows by several pages every day and those aren’t joke edits. To conclude, the actual contribution by far outweigh the joke edits. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 07:12, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Move to Incubator Plus, by simple keeping we only got more and more scowiki-like problems, I see no reason this language will be accepted by langcom, but still useful for non-WMF materials. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226 How would one go about starting a project on Incubator Plus? --CanadianToast (talk) 16:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
And how do you think that this project can be accepted? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:26, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
What do you mean? --CanadianToast (talk) 03:55, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
@CanadianToast: Per m:LPP:

Ancient or historical languages Only Wikisource wikis in ancient or historical languages are accepted, because resources in such languages continue to be important to the world, even in the absence of native, living speakers of those languages. Where possible, such languages should be bundled with the modern equivalent Wikisource project (such as Old English with English), though that is not required.

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@Liuxinyu970226: Ah, I see. So it looks like it doesn't have a good chance of being accepted, but despite this I think it should be kept here. There are other projects in similar situations on Incubator and Middle English Wikipedia has been here since at least 2005 if I'm not mistaken. However, I'm not entirely opposed to moving it to Incubator Plus. --CanadianToast (talk) 17:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Afaik, "Incubator Plus" is supposed to work like Incubator, just that it isn't Incubator. --MF-W {a, b} 08:37, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Alright, thanks. --CanadianToast (talk) 17:33, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
That is correct. It has the same prefix system and can draw images from Commons. The only true difference is that it is hosted by Miraheze and not Wikimedia, which allows Wikimedia Plus to host projects that are rejected from here. --OWTB (talk) 09:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Keep I agree with CanadinToast, if you know that there are mistakes in our Middle English, why don’t you correct it? Also if you look on the test wiki activity, you can clearly see that on January it has received more attention and much more people have contributed so there’s no any reason to delete it. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 08:33, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
If there’s inaccurate language you can correct it, then ping the user who made the mistake and explain why it’s inaccurate. I’m sure most of the users try to write as accurately as possible. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 08:37, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Also, @ScriptorHistoriae: told in the proposal page that while he thinks that the proposal is weak, the test wiki is impressive that he think it can be created once we have more than 100 pages. If I’m not mistaken we already have more than that. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:29, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Wikipedia isn't the only wiki to describe in one language, we have many other opinions. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:35, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226:, what do you mean? Also, about the statement that only wikisources can exist in an ancient or historical language, it’s written in Wp/enm:"This test has a valid language code, but note that it is an extinct, historical or ancient language so it will be hard to get a Wikimedia project." Yes, I agree that it’s hard but it’s not impossible so I don’t see why you want to close it. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 07:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
@Gifnk dlm 2020: If you think that there should really have an enm.wikipedia.org, you may try to request it at Meta-Wiki, but then what will be happened? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete or move, whatever. The Language Policy is crystal clear about ancient languages: no new projects are to be created. They seldom get substantial: those few that can write in the language usually abandon their hobby after a few months. This is, of course, a problem with wikis in regional languages too, but these are supported by ideals (language preservation, emancipation, alternative perspectives) that wikis in ancient languages fail to meet. Besides, in its written form, the English language has changed little since the twelfth century. You could say a Middle English Wikipedia already exists. Its similarity to Modern English also means that this project is likely to attract non-expert edits à la sco.wiki, as has already been pointed out above. Steinbach (talk) 11:02, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Middle English Wikipedia is not a new wiki-it was created in 2009. Also, this specific wiki is substantial-just look in the recent edits or press "Check Test Wiki Activity". And also, Middle English is different from Modern English so it’s impossible to say that Modern English Wikipedia is a Middle English Wikipedia. And to all the people who say it attracts joke edits, all wikis attract joke edits so you might as well shut down the Wikimedia Foundation if you are gonna use that sort of logic. Do you know how many joke edits in English Wikipedia survive for several days? Also, it’s written that deleting a test wiki isn’t related to the LangCom. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 06:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
@Gifnk dlm 2020: The third proposal for such an enm.wikipedia was rejected 4 years ago as "An extinct proto-language." I don't see why you have reasons to contest. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:56, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226:, because this test wiki is very active so I think that this rule should change. This test wiki is prospering in the Incubator but if it is moved to incubator plus I think many people would lose interest. Also, if we allow wikis in historical languages, this will prove the point that there are wikis in ALL languages and might encourage speakers of endangered languages to contribute to wikis in those endangered languages. Also, some people might be interested only in editing in historical languages wiki at first, but then spread out and also edit in wikis in modern languages and this will be beneficial for all wikimedia projects. Wikis in historical languages are usually not active not because people don’t want to edit in those languages but because people are not aware of those wikis. If you know people who know Middle English you can tell them about this wiki, and you can also read a bit about the differences between Modern English and Middle English and then contribute by yourself. I recommend you use this Middle English dictionary. (BTW, the message about contributing is not specifically to you but to all the users who read this). -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 08:04, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Keep --PastelKos (talk) 11:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Why? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:01, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226:, idk why you expect him to answer if you haven’t pinged him but there are many arguments for keeping it above. Also, I don’t see what you or anyone else can gain from deleting Middle English Wikipedia. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 14:25, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
I would like to add that people interested in ancient languages can start editing wikis in those ancient languages and then expand to other wikis which will be beneficial to the entire wikimedia foundation. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:50, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
Please feel free to do so, by submitting here. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:23, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226:, thank you very much for your reply! The reason I haven’t submitted yet is because I’m not sure which way is better: submitting a fourth request with all the arguments why I think there should be wikis in ancient languages or first post a request for comment from an admin requesting to change the policy. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:52, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
If there’s now an open request, doesn’t that mean that this proposal should be closed? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 08:56, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226: In Incubator:Requests for deletions it’s written that you can only request to delete test wikis that don’t have a proposal or were rejected. This test wiki now has an open proposal so shouldn’t the proposal to delete this test wiki be closed? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 16:00, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Because the proposal has been rejected, which nobody is surprised about. I suggest moving this project somewhere else. --MF-W {a, b} 21:14, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
This is just why I voted "move to Incubator Plus" instead of "delete" above, since this language code isn't suitable for Wikipedia, and the contents look very well. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:28, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
Comment I emailed a Miraheze administrator today to see if they're interested in taking over this test project or not, this will let this project be a domained, though not part of WMF, encyclopedia project. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:13, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Comment I posted a request for comment at meta to change the policy. If the content really looks very well then using common sense it should be allowed to stay. Despite the fact that I have only left the request today, two people have already left comments expressing their support. Moving those wikis from WMF will cause a migration of users from WMF, however keeping them will cause users interested in ancient languages to join WMF and they might expand their reach to other projects as well. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 19:55, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
@Prosfilaes, Future Perfect at Sunrise: What's your opinions on their RFC? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:04, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
And Gifnk dlm 2020, your RFC has recently got two oppose responses, so I don't know how I can support you, as that said, Good Bye, your works very well, but the WMF is a dead stone for you and me, that WMF won't change anything here. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:17, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Keep That's the purpose of Incubator after all. Even if scowiki-like problems occur, it's clear that it's under development and not a full-fledged wiki. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the wiki, that is. Leaderboard (talk) 15:34, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Keep This is an Incubator wiki, not a distinct Wikipedia that's actually got a subdomain. Delete the trash articles, but keep the rest. --Sailor Ceres (talk) 02:02, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
@Sailor Ceres: thank you very much for your support! Unfortunately currently ancient languages are not eligible for new wikis so some users think that it’s pointless to keep the test wikis. There has been a request to change this policy and it can be found here. If this request is approved then it will be just as yours suggested. The trash articles will be deleted, and the test will be kept. This is not canvassing, just informing. Also, @Leaderboard: thank you very much! It’s a bit weird in my opinion that you wrote neutral in the RfC, your comments look like a support for me😅. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 15:38, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

User:Gifnk dlm 2020: I see that preparations for exporting the project are now being made. I also see that the strange happenings on the RFC (who even understands what's going on there anymore? …) have caused some panic about the allegedly impending deletion of the Wp/enm pages. I do think that it probably makes sense to delete the test-project if policy stays at not allowing approval of it, but I also wanted to assure you all that we won't delete the pages all of a sudden. If the contributors want to save their work elsewhere, we have always made this possible. --MF-W {a, b} 19:38, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

@MF-Warburg:, I see. Thank you very much! I will inform the other users in the discussion page. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 20:56, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Wp/odt, Wt/odt and Wp/dumEdit

Believe me, this hurts! I love the older stages of my native language.

But we can't keep them, per language policy, and for the obvious reason that these projects haven't gained momentum. Old Dutch is very scantily transmitted, you'd have to reconstruct just too many words to even write a lemma about medieval things. It also has far fewer proficient readers than Old English. Middle Dutch does have a rich literature in all genres from religion to accountancy, and (in its written form) is much more different from modern Dutch than Middle English is from modern English, but again, a Wikipedia in it would violate policy and would probably never be succesful. And it, too, might attract nonsense edits. Steinbach (talk) 11:12, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Weak keep: On a first glance, the quality looks relatively well, so I wouldn't mind keeping them here. In case, the community decides otherwise, I will gladly export it to Incubator Plus as it would be a shame to see what little is there being deleted. --OWTB (talk) 20:32, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm not commenting on their quality (btw wasn't it you who created both of them years ago). I'm just saying: why keep them here if there is absolutely no chance that they will ever be approved? Steinbach (talk) 17:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
I have only created the main pages to accompany any pre-existing subpages. The reason for not deleting them is that, while there is no chance for a subdomain, they are according to our policy valid, as they have an ISO-code. Deleting good contents is always unnecessary. As I'm more or less neutral to keeping them (and Wt/odt?) here, I am always willing to export them to Incubator Plus. --OWTB (talk) 07:59, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
OWTB, I'd love to also mention Wt/odt in this section as it looks also badly contributed. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:26, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Comment It looks like @BlueWhale35 was contributing some pages on both tests. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 07:49, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
Regareless, delete both, having bad quality articles that are wrongly maintained. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:20, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
In case of deletion, please let me know, and I'll transfer them to Incubator Plus. --OWTB (talk) 06:11, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
@Ooswesthoesbes I don't think they need to be exported since they are possibly copyvio pages. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:26, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Wp/sjnEdit

Rejected request at Meta. 4 content pages, all added in the last month. I think the editor should be given the chance to save their work before it's deleted since it is an ineligible conlang. -Yupik (talk) 00:23, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

  • Hello! I would expect to receive a justification for the removal of this project. This project is currently developing and has all the prospects for further growth.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 11:21, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
  • I presented a couple of additional arguments in defense of the project and refuted the arguments made by those not interested in preserving it. Also, I want to separately note that all of these arguments against the project are, by now, outdated. In this regard, I am in favor of reconsidering this decision.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 15:33, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep for the time being, because a request is created on Meta: m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Sindarin 2. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:45, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete. I don't believe in success of the request for creation of the project. None of the Wikimedia projects in a fictional language exist. The possibility of creation of Wikipedias in ancient (natural) languages cause bloody disputes in MetaWiki, Wikipedias in constructed languages - way more useful - look doubtful for many, how we can take seriosly the Sindarin WP. However, I respect your interest. --Wolverène (talk) 07:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Wp/zapEdit

This isn't so much an RFD as much as it is a request for comment - Zapotec is a language family with a lot of diversity, and this test Wikipedia gives literally no indication what Zapotec language it's written in. This would be like making a Romance Wikipedia. Can I get clarification here? --Sailor Ceres (talk) 19:02, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

The only contributor ever was User:Zapoteco diiste, whose userpage seems to suggest a specific variant of the language which he used. I suppose it would actually be good to move these pages to a more appropriately specific code (or to delete them as abandoned). --MF-W {a, b} 00:02, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
My best guess is that the wiki is in Miahuatlán Zapotec, which a Google Search indicates may be what "Zapoteco dieste" refers to, but I'm not entirely certain. --Sailor Ceres (talk) 02:43, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Temporary keep I think we need such discussions on langcom mailing list, the Zapotec is an ISO 639-3 defined macrolanguage, that has too dozens of member language codes pointed to variets of Zapotec, @Sailor Ceres we don't always disallow macrolanguages, as well as we don't always allow them, there should have a major discussion on why we need (or don't need) a new project in this macrolanguage, otherwise we can move this test project to a member code one. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Wp/orvEdit

In fact, the (spoken) language of East Slavic lands was not standartised and was heavily divided into dialects. The literary language of Kievan Rus', the Principality of Moscow, and other East Slavic territories was Church Slavonic, the Wikipedia in this language already exists. The language which could be used in this project, even in the most positive case, will be a sort of language reconstruction and an attempt to create a literary language for people who lived in the 10th-16th centuries (sounds like a nonsense itself).
This abandoned project is claiming to be in Old East Slavic language, but actually looks like an ridiculous fantasy on how Proto-Russian(?) might look like. You have not to be a professional linguist to see that the pages are actually written either in modern Russian with archaic spelling and archaic formulating (like Wp/orv/Єстоніѩ, Wp/orv/Їспаніѩ), or in modern Russian with schizophrenic spelling which very roughly imitates the pre-1918 (!) Russian (like Wp/orv/Зѣмлѩ, where "и" replaced with "і", "я" with "ѩ", and "е" with "ѣ", the last one even in the beginning of a word and it was absolutely impossible in any early forms of the Cyrillic orthography), or in modern Russian unchanged (the 'project' policies: Wp/orv/Википедия:Контакты, Wp/orv/Википедия:Крым, Wp/orv/Википедия:К удалению). There are many bold calques from other languages, including modern, especially in country names - from Latin, modern Polish, modern Russian, as well as weird innovations like *Тѣвтоніѩ (*Tevtoniya) for Germany - it's like if you call Ukraine as 'Scythia' or Armenia as 'Urartu'.
In the end, I don't know why the Wp/orv is still existing and how can this be justified. --Wolverène (talk) 08:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Илья Драконов, Child of Garrett, Midnight Gambler, Lingveno, Ilya0103, Павло Сарт, Kaganer, Caclin Gatu, Tegel, Krasnoiarec, Самоа, Sendyuk Official Any ideas about this test deletion request? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 07:01, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
  • I do not contribute this project for a long time already but I do not see a problem in having a Wikipedia project like this. We have projects on Latin, Old East Slavic and some other languages. Old Russian Wikipedia is not worse than those. The only problem is to find people who will edit and full up this Wiki project, but deleting it is quite dum. Ilya Drakonov (talk) 11:03, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Wy/orvEdit

It's not just useless to try to tell the citizens of Medieval Moscow how to arrive to Constantinopole using the Old East Slavic Wikivoyage - I guess they would've been extremely scared by just one look at computer or any other satan's invention. --Wolverène (talk) 09:31, 16 September 2021 (UTC)