Incubator:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive/2021

This page is an archive. Please do not edit the contents of this page. Direct any additional comments to the current discussion page.

Wn/vi Nothing I Can't "2021-07-07" → Wn/vi Mạnh An "2021-07-07"

Because this User:Nothing I Can't renamed to User:Mạnh An. Thanks --Nghiemtrongdai VN (talk) 13:14, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, done. --MF-W {a, b} 17:48, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Moving request

Please move User:Xbspiro/Template:Welcome/hu to Template:Welcome/hu. - Xbspiro (talk) 04:28, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --MF-W {a, b} 03:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. - Xbspiro (talk) 14:02, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please move User:Xbspiro/Template:Welcome/lus to Template:Welcome/lus without leaving a redirect. (Source: [1]. I don't speak this language.) - Xbspiro (talk) 05:46, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --MF-W {a, b} 17:52, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please move User:Saimawnkham/MediaWiki:Wy/shn/Common.css to MediaWiki:Wy/shn/Common.css and User:Saimawnkham/MediaWiki:Wy/shn/Common.js to MediaWiki:Wy/shn/Common.js.Saimawnkham (talk) 14:28, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Are they copied from an existing wiki? --MF-W {a, b} 16:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Copied from en.wikivoyage.Saimawnkham (talk) 03:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Moved. --MF-W {a, b} 02:01, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Hello. There are two users by the names of DiuPater and ChimNung vandalizing on Middle English Incubator. --CanadianToast (talk) 00:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked. --MF-W {a, b} 01:00, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There's a new vandal account by the name of CanadianToasts. --CanadianToast (talk) 21:00, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also blocked. --MF-W {a, b} 08:27, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mass moving requests in Wt/ba

So many entries in Wt/ba with initial letter "a" using a wrong Cyrillic one "а" and need to be moved to their correct names. The whole list can be seen in Special:PrefixIndex/Wt/ba/ from Wt/ba/аfet to Wt/ba/аşılama, and please also delete the redirects of them.--Sayonzei (talk) 04:46, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, it's actually been a while this request was posted. Thanks for your concern, @User:Sayonzei. --Comp1089 (talk) 23:29, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Sayonzei:   Done. Sorry if it took too long. --Comp1089 (talk) 11:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I report the vandalism of the user AntoniusWiki

Yesterday the wiktionary in lombard (ISO 639-3 : lmo) was vandalized by the user AntoniusWiki. Luckily the changes have been reverted. Anyway looking at his contributions ( it seems that the account has just been created in order to vandalize.--Gat lombart (talk) 22:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked. --Sotiale (talk) 03:14, 30 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit mediaWiki common.css

Hi, I would like to kindly ask an admin to fill MediaWiki:Wp/rmc/Common.css with the content of User:Adehertogh/vector.css.--Adehertogh (talk) 12:45, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --MF-W {a, b} 18:41, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism in Middle English Wikipedia

Hello, there’s an anonymous user vandalizing Middle English Wikipedia. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:21, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like he already stopped. --MF-W {a, b} 02:13, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Creation request for MediaWiki pages in Swedish

Details on the I:TP talkpage by Sabelöga (diff). - Xbspiro (talk) 04:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Done --Comp1089 (talk) 14:41, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Template rename

Hi, could you please rename "user:Joseph/Template:Localisedwikiname" to "Template:Localisedwikiname" or something shorter? I want to use it on Incubator:Featured wikis as {{Localisedwikiname|Wp|mnc}}, so that the localized versions (if translated in UniversalLanguageSelector, else English is shown.) will be shown instead English ones. Thanks.--Joseph (talk) 21:28, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Is the reason you request page move because something is blocking the move function? --Sotiale (talk) 11:46, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Sotiale: the new pagename is unprefixed. That may be the reason. --Comp1089 (talk) 08:40, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I want to use for localisation at main page. Currently, main page is translated except Incubating news and current events. This template will show "만주어 위키백과" instead of "Manchu Wikipedia" for Korean interface. Code is copied from Template:Test wiki/core. And yes, I cannot create unprefixed templates.--Joseph (talk) 06:57, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Done @Joseph: I also thought of specifying the template as a translation, but I think your template is more versatile than that. --Sotiale (talk) 12:39, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Does this template work at all?

(both linking to the info pages). --MF-W {a, b} 18:51, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. It needs to be modified so that the template can recognize lowercase letters as well. {{localisedwikiname|wq|de}} is German Wikiquote, but {{localisedwikiname|Wq|de}} is German Wikiquote :( --Sotiale (talk) 02:10, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Sotiale:: in the first case you shouldn't have added "Tetum Wikipedia" as the last parameter. As for lowercase variants, I've just   added them. --Comp1089 (talk) 09:25, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Comp1089: Thanks! And where did I use Tetum Wikipedia as a parameter? --Sotiale (talk) 09:55, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, it's not you, it's @MF-Warburg:, my bad. --Comp1089 (talk) 10:22, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So what does "Default Language Name" mean in the example in the documentation? --MF-W {a, b} 16:18, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also not sure what the name of that parameter meant.. Looking at the template, it seems that it can be used in this way: mfw Wikipedia({{localisedwikiname|wp|mfw}}) / MF-W Wikipedia({{localisedwikiname|wp|mfw|MF-W}}). Yes, obviously mfw is not an ISO allocation code :p --Sotiale (talk) 12:17, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

StevenJ81 and their bot

If our admin policy said right, administrators are removed their rights if they have neither edits nor log actions for a year, per Special:Contributions/StevenJ81 and Special:Log/StevenJ81, both are ended at 18 Dec 2019, which is 15 months past, any ideas? See also Special:Contributions/StevenJ81bot and Special:Log/StevenJ81bot --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Now removed. --MF-W {a, b} 16:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SPQRobin and their bot

Like above, Special:Contributions/SPQRobin ended at 2018, Special:Log/SPQRobin at 2016, and both Special:Log/SPQRobot and Special:Contributions/SPQRobot 2012. Remove or not? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:38, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Now removed. --MF-W {a, b} 16:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Request block for sockpuppet user

Adding irrelevant and sexual images at Wp/ryu/ジャニーズ事務所(en:Johnny & Associates). It may be a sockpuppet of User:Mintou89a (globally locked), who did same vandalism at same page before. Please block it indefinitely. (Is the reporting vandalism page here? If not, please guide.) --Y-route (talk) 06:00, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Done Blocked. --Sotiale (talk) 12:06, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. --Y-route (talk) 13:24, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please take a look at Special:Contributions/W0I4K1I8W1? It looks like nonsense to me, but I could be wrong - is "wp" a valid language code, and is the content being added correct in that language? --DannyS712 (talk) 01:11, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's a joke from a friend traveling on xwiki. Everything is gone, thank you for reporting. --Sotiale (talk) 01:47, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please update my name on MediaWiki:Administrated test wikis.json from 'Tahmid02016' to 'Tahmid'. I have been renamed. I am test-admin of Wn/bn and Wq/bn. T@hmid (T@lk) 02:36, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --Sotiale (talk) 09:08, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request Wp/tpw

This link is currently white-paper fully protected so I need admin helps on creating it.

{{test wiki
| status = open
| language = Tupí
| meta = 

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:53, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --MF-W {a, b} 09:53, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Hello there, I would like to do a bit on Wt/mai. I've activated Hot Cat over here, but it's not working for me. Can someone please check on your side and/or Sysop can ensure if it's working? Kind regards, — Tulsi Bhagat contribs | talk ] 07:19, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, it's not just you. There's something wrong :( --Sotiale (talk) 10:51, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I contacted Martin for help and it has just been fixed. thank you for your reporting! --Sotiale (talk) 11:02, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Sotiale for addressing my concern. Kind regards, — Tulsi Bhagat contribs | talk ] 14:49, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Contributions of newly registered users

Under navigation of Template:RC, I think the correct link of "Contributions of newly registered users" would be [2]. Would you like to update it? I don't want to mess up the things so I put it here. Thank you for your understanding! Kind regards, — Tulsi Bhagat contribs | talk ] 09:03, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --MF-W {a, b} 11:52, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It should be again marked for translation so that the changes will appear on RC. Kind regards, — Tulsi Bhagat contribs | talk ] 03:15, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Request block for Cross-wiki vandalism user

IP: - Cross-wiki vandalism (blocked at Japanese Wikipedia(3-years), Wikiquote & Wiktionary). Adding irrelevant message to my talk page ("Not here to build an encyclopedia"). --Y-route (talk) 15:51, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(Non-administrator comment) That IP made only one edit here so far. So, I don't think it should be blocked. But if it continues vandalising then an admin may block it. -- T@hmid (T@lk) 09:10, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Latinized belorussian wikipedia

Novarussia (talk) 13:15, 21 June 2021 (UTC)Please, dear administrators, don't block editing of page Wp/be-lat![reply]

(Non-administrator comment) @Novarussia: Well, Incubator hosts projects with valid ISO codes only. The same happened with Latinized Russian back in 2016, although I could not find the relevant mailings of the Language Committee. You may start it on Incubator Plus (it won't get Foundation-backed infrastructure), or you may start to work on a transliteration module (Serbian has one, I think, but they have two scripts officially). - Xbspiro (talk) 03:30, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I added a protected edit request there. Jura1 (talk) 10:28, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism by IP on Wn/lad

Hello users, on Wn/lad (see the project's history) there was 2 cases of vandalism by the same IP. And I have to revert, revert and still reverting... so someone can protect it temporarily to only autoconfirmed? Greetings, <atomi20>¿some problem? 10:01 AM, (UTC -5) 30 June 2021

The IP has been blocked. --MF-W {a, b} 09:29, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category creation request

Could you please create Category:Pages using DynamicPageList with ___HIDDENCAT___ as its content? The category shall appear on all pages using DPL - devs use it to better understand how DPL is used after the otuage caused by ru.wn. - Xbspiro (talk) 14:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see there is already phabricator:T287702 to make these categories hidden. Can we just wait for it or is there additional benefit to that page existing? --MF-W {a, b} 22:05, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No need to rush, if a solution is on its way, you may let it be as it is. - Xbspiro (talk) 01:35, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unable to edit contents on page

Hello Sir,

I am trying to edit this article by changing the template from {{Wp/ii/Infobox ꁍꇩ| }} to {{Wp/ii/Infobox ꁍꇩ2| }}

however I received this automated error message:

Error: This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your edit was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: telephone support spam

I am not trying to insert spam but to replace an existing template to a more refined template on an existing page. Could you please help remove this automated error message from my edits, Thank you. --ꑸꀘꒀ (talk) 01:59, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Even if I try to create a new article using the previous template: {{Wp/ii/Infobox ꁍꇩ| }}, the same error message would be displayed and it would not let me save the page. Please help disable the error message so I can edit and create new articles using those two templates, Thank you. --ꑸꀘꒀ (talk) 02:17, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I wish to create this new article: <content removed>
User:ꑸꀘꒀ: Please try again now. The problem (it is reported about in somewhat cryptical terms here: m:Stewards'_noticeboard#Mucked_up_an_abuse_filter) should be solved now. --MF-W {a, b} 13:56, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
MF-W Thankyou very much. Problem is now solved. --ꑸꀘꒀ (talk) 06:23, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete redirects by prefix

Hi! Can someone delete all pages starting with Wn/lad/Xablón:? You can see all the pages here. Cheers, atomi20¿some problem? 01:12, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done! --MF-W {a, b} 18:31, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Trying to creat Wp/hhjm

Hello! Recently I've tried to creat Wp/hhjm on the Incubator, but it doesn't works because this language (Hachijō) only has a ISO 639-6 code... Can someone help me please! Jsph457 (talk) 08:37, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Due to phab:T280742, MediaWiki:Gadget-SpaceSavingIOL.css will no longer work as expected (see Help:Manual for an example). To fix this, change {
	display: inline;


.mw-pt-languages .mw-pt-languages-list {
	display: inline;
	margin: 0;

AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 16:10, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --MF-W {a, b} 10:24, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

move request

Hello! I would like to request to move the following pages to MediaWiki namespaces for Wp/blk test wiki. Thanks.

- NinjaStrikers «» 15:52, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --MF-W {a, b} 23:25, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wb/shn css/js

Please move User:Saimawnkham/MediaWiki:Wb/shn/Common.css to MediaWiki:Wb/shn/Common.css and User:Saimawnkham/MediaWiki:Wb/shn/Common.js to MediaWiki:Wb/shn/Common.js. I copied these from en.wikibooks. Thanks.Saimawnkham (talk) 02:08, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Saimawnkham: both pages import multiple subpages (which do not exist here, but probably on en.wikibooks). I believe this won't work. --MF-W {a, b} 22:55, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.Saimawnkham (talk) 14:22, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It might be an idea to copy all of this code into your personal css / js pages first and try to get it working. -- MF-W {a, b} 16:01, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Blocking new pages

I'm trying to create a new page on wp/tmr but it says that the page has no valid code. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eliahu21 (discussioncontribs) 20:36, 29 September 2021 (UTC).[reply]

I fixed this as Wp/tmr already existed. --MF-W {a, b} 21:17, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unable to create Wp/bre/Main Page.

Is Braille supposed to be a language supported by Wikipedia, and if it is supported for Wikipedia, what is the iso 639 code of Braille?


— The preceding unsigned comment was added by GoalkeeperPanda (discussioncontribs) 20:16, 30 September 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Braille is not a language, but a writing system. So, no. The code "bre" is assigned to the Breton language, which however uses its 639-1 code br:. --MF-W {a, b} 09:57, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
oh ok, sorry for the inconveninece.
Thank you,
GoalkeeperPanda GoalkeeperPanda (talk) 23:23, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unable to create Wp/mhj

I'm trying to create moghol wikipedia(Wp/mhj) but it says that the page has no valid code. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by ㅎㄱㄱㄹ예 (discussioncontribs) 11:45, 6 October 2021 (UTC).[reply]

That's because the language is extinct. --MF-W {a, b} 14:46, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I know that the Mogol language is currently spoken by 200 people. Isn't right?--ㅎㄱㄱㄹ {a, b} 14:58, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you don't know, you certainly don't speak it, right? -- MF-W {a, b} 16:29, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for replying. ㅎㄱㄱㄹ예 (talk) 23:15, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is their sock per cswp, seems to continue the behaviour of the master. For attention please. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:33, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked. --MF-W {a, b} 13:37, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:43, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unable to create new page in Wp/sjn

Houston, we had a problem. I tried to create new page in project Wp/sjn, and can't do that.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 16:02, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Let me repeat my query. I get an error "This code either is not valid or does not belong to a language accepted for new Wikimedia projects." when I try to create a new page under Wp/Sjn. Is there anything I can do about this so that I can continue to develop the section Wp/Sjn?--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 05:54, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Sindarin is a fictional language and is not eligible as a language for new projects under the LPP. In order for you to develop it, you must first obtain eligibility for the language. --Sotiale (talk) 13:33, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Sotiale, thank you very much for your response! I want to clarify this question. I have previously communicated about this language and received permission to develop the project in Sindarin, which I have been doing until recently. Moreover - until the end of August I translated Wikipedia interface messages in Sindarin and almost finished working on Core module messages faced with the problem of inability to continue working on it. I am currently in talks about keeping it, because in my opinion it is one of those languages that is very underrated within the Wikipedia project. I really hope we can come to a consensus, and I will do my best to develop this project. It is a very good, informative and flexible language with great possibilities, but because of so many problems I just do not get the opportunity to develop it, and this whole situation really hurts me. I trained a neural network, and I spent many days building a text corpus for it, I have reconstructed hundreds of words, I wrote a dozen programs to dynamically extend it, and I wouldn't want my work to go in the trash. I apologize for the excessive emotionality, and very much hope for understanding.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 19:22, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Calad-ne-dúath: As you may know, the current policy is not intended to disparage your efforts or thwart your will. Perhaps, users who are fluent in languages that have been denied eligibility have made a lot of effort to acquire and study the language that is not basically their native language. That would be something that any user learning a foreign language would relate to. In addition to Sindarin, there are several fictional languages, but the policy stipulates that none of them are eligible. This is not a matter of values in language; this is basically because there are no native speakers of these languages and they cannot be. Since the current policy, in principle, denies the eligibility for fictional languages, including Sindarin, if you want to make a project about Sindarin, you should first obtain eligibility. And I have a question, where did you received the development permission for Sindarin? --Sotiale (talk) 22:53, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, @Sotiale. Thank you very much for your attention and for your response. What you have written is not the problem. Let me dispel your doubts and misconceptions:
  1. There are studies on the subject of fictional languages, and their number probably tends to the total number of people who have ever lived on earth. Sindarin is spoken by millions of people around the world. Because of its prevalence, Sindarin is even recognized as an international language. It is written and spoken, and is the subject of large online and print communities. It is so easy to learn that it is similar to Esperanto, another fictional language. People learn Sindarin in two weeks.
  2. Separately, I note that Wikipedia already contains sections written in fictional languages, although there obviously cannot be any native speakers, because all people who speak Esperanto learn it in addition to their Muttersprache. I'm not sure how much this detail fits into Wikipedia's language policy.
  3. You ask where I got permission. The answer is: I applied to the Language Committee of Wikipedia. I created a topic called Wikipedia Edhellen, and there I discussed the project idea with people. The number of people I talked to included, for example, the skeptical Liuxinyu970226. Our discussion was very interesting and informative, during which we learned a lot. There I presented my arguments in favor of creating a project in Sindarin. In the course of that discussion, I translated a couple of lines of text into Sindarin. That text contained some concepts of modern everyday life, such as the word "fractal". The administrator of Prosfilaes was interested in the idea of the project, and gave me permission to develop it. I respect these people and am very grateful to them.
  4. Later, a request was created to add a language section on Sindarin, where I also added a number of relevant arguments for the existence of the project:
  5. When I started working on the project, I successfully translated several articles, undertook translation of the interface, and met no obstacles in the process. I did not encounter the problems cited by skeptics when discussing the idea of a language section in the Language Committee, such as the size of the lexicon (the Sindarin lexicon can reach the size of billions of words), or any other. The need for specific terms is solved by simple word-formation rules in Sindarin, translation automation is easily accomplished with special programs, a neural network, and my own manual error correction. But I chose Sindarin not for the sake of realizing some ambitions, but because of its underestimation, because for all its possibilities, ease of learning, beauty and vividness of sound, with the authorship of Tolkien himself, who participated in creating international languages such as Esperanto, this particular language is not represented in Wikipedia to this day. At the same time, I know of cases where enthusiastic fathers have spoken common artificial languages to their children, raising them from an early age as speakers of those languages. It would be a survivor's mistake to assume that there are no such speakers for the Sindarin language.
  6. Among my later arguments for the existence of a language section in Sindarin, I added an argument about the possibilities of the Sindarin language section, but I think I did not express it clearly enough. I simplify the task of translating large and complex texts with self-written programs. Using the rules of word formation Sindarin, I manually reconstruct the words I need, and refine a program that helps me do this. I assume this technique is useful for those who would like to translate Wikipedia into languages of small nations or ancient states. I remember an administrator commenting on the likely value of sections of Wikipedia written in ancient languages and the existence of a demand for such sections. I have firsthand knowledge of a large number of natural languages, and am familiar with the grammar used by some ancient languages, such as the language of ancient Egypt. Every language has patterns that can be expressed in program code and used in translation. But I don't want to participate in other projects, because it's not serious. The language project is not a toy, it is a big undertaking, the results of which will be seen and appreciated by the whole world.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 16:12, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  1. I am not an administrator, and I surely did not give you permission to do anything. Moreover, Esperanto is not a fictional language, at least by the definitions everyone else is using; it is an artificial language. A fictional language is one created as the language of a fictional people or a fictional world, of which Sindarin and Klingon are the most major examples.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:02, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Please forgive me and thank you very much for your comment and support. I probably made a mistake or confused the person who granted me access to work on the project. However, the fact is that I was still granted access. As far as I know, the Wp/Sjn project had remote status before I applied to the Language Committee. I am very grateful to all those who participated in that discussion and helped me with the organization of this project. It cannot be overstated.
    Let us return to the topic of our discussion. Regarding these two languages, Esperanto and Sindarin, I can say that regardless of their purpose, they share an artificial origin. Both have equally full-fledged grammar and rules. Based on the language policy of Wikipedia mentioned above, neither of these two languages can have native speakers and their knowledge can only be acquired.
    But I repeat: there are cases where people have been taught artificial languages from birth, including fictional languages. This circumstance obviously makes these people speakers of fictional languages. But we know of a small number of such cases because they have been covered in one way or another by the press. However, with such a small sample, our information about speakers of a particular fictional language cannot be complete, and a statement about their complete absence cannot be considered scientific for lack of documentary evidence.
    For as long as the Sindarin language has existed, several generations have changed. Sindarin has attracted the attention of people, and is now not only the language of fictional people - it is spoken by real people in the real world. For this reason, whatever the original purpose of Sindarin, it now serves as a full-fledged means of communication and information transfer, and does not suffer from attachment to the realities of the fictional world and the people for whom it was created.
    Thus, we conclude that the absence of native carriers of Sindarin is not a scientific fact, and the original use within the fictional world is not a criterion for placing Sindarin on the ban lists on the criteria of inability to transmit the necessary information, or any other. The practical fact is the prevalence of Sindarin in the world, and its active study and use by people. I propose to look at the situation from a new angle and take Sindarin into consideration as one of the current languages, a section in which it can be of benefit to the whole world.
    Thank you for your attention.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 06:44, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well.. I went through this page you put up, but still the status is 'submitted' and no langcom member has marked the proposal as eligible. If you want a Sindarin project, you will have to convince langcom, not the users here. If you have received development permission(?) from someone at langcom, the status should change. Otherwise, you are just convincing other users. And this is why I keep saying that you must obtain eligibility. Also this is why I'm not discussing with you, just mentioning general principles. --Sotiale (talk) 12:08, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your response. Okay, I will try to develop all the above-mentioned topics in the text of the application and organize a dialogue with the Language Committee. But I repeat: there are a number of limitations that I cannot overcome, which will not allow me to complete all the items in the application. This is a systemic problem, and systemic problems require systemic solutions. Dialogue is a very important part of solving complex problems, the outcome of which cannot be influenced by one person alone. Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 13:02, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support unfreezing Wp/sjn, because without doing so, no one can check if Sindaring is suitable to have a Wikipedia or not. We need some Sindarin pages to check if this artificial language meets "it must have a reasonable degree of recognition as determined by discussion" or not. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:07, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree; it's pretty clear that Sindarin is a distinct artificial language. There's nothing important about the language that an incubator project is going to tell us.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:49, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Prosfilaes One second. If we start talking about languages in this way, we run the risk of plunging into the maze of nihilism and getting through it to the significance of natural languages and the peoples who speak or have spoken them. Tolkien used in Sindarin and his other languages selected words from natural languages such as Finnish, Welsh and others. This fact makes Sindarin not so much a "separate" language, and its popularity today is outside the community that is passionate about Tolkien's work. Therefore, we cannot say unequivocally that it is not very important or separate from the languages of the real world. And we cannot ignore the fact that in today's information space more people may know about artificial languages like Quenya, Dothraki, Welsh or Klingon than they do about natural languages, including Latin, Aramaic, Coptic and others. Moreover, we cannot ignore the number of people in the world who speak and communicates them.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 10:28, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The number of people in the world who speak and communicate with Sindarin is approximately zero. Despite requests, you have never shown the slightest evidence that anyone has ever used Sindarin as a medium of genuine communication, even at the level of Klingon.--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:19, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you have enough of an idea of what your statements look like from the outside.
1. Using the simplest logic, it is easy to determine that there are no languages spoken by 0 people in the entire world, because no one needs to know about the language at all, not even its creator. In the case of Sindarin, we have thousands of communities on the Internet, plenty of educational literature, books written entirely in Sindarin, songs sung in Sindarin, websites designed in Sindarin, computer games, movies, and so on. For a language to be spoken by 0 people in the world, the language must not exist at all. Moreover, if we go to an arbitrary Internet search engine, we run the risk of finding news saying: more people in the world speak Elvish than Irish. Going further in reflection, even the mere fact that the language exists, methodological manuals related to its subject matter, and written in the various languages that have come down to me, suggests there are at least a dozen different authors whose works I have used, and who are able to speak and communicate in Sindarin. That said, I am only covering authors whose works I have used in the study of this language. Next, we can think of the existence of motion pictures based on Tolkien's works. If we study interviews with the actors, videos from the set, and other materials describing the production of these films, we will find the following fact: during the filming, the actors actively practiced speaking Sindarin with each other. Thus, the list of people speaking and communicating in Sindarin is growing little by little in the world. Let's add to this list the linguists who taught these actors, and let's turn slightly to the history of the issue, because the interest of film-makers in using Sindarin in films did not arise from nothing. There was a community of readers of Tolkien's books, there were subcultures that used the Sindarin language, just as the modern Star Trek subculture uses the Klingon language. Even Tolkien himself spoke and communicated fluently using his languages, as we know from his biography. Thanks to the efforts of many, many people, information about the Sindarin language has reached me, a language textbook written in my native language has come into my hands, textbooks of the same language written in languages foreign to me have come into my hands, and all together this has allowed me to learn Sindarin to the point where I can communicate fluently in it. I'm sure even my presence on the list of people speaking and communicating in Sindarin is already moving the meter of all those people in a positive direction. Yes, there is a common problem for conlangs that prevents a certain number of Sindarin speakers from being published in Wikipedia, but I am, nevertheless, absolutely certain and have all the proof in the same search engines that the same Sindarin is spoken by more people than 0. If I count the communities on the Internet that I personally know and where people speak Sindarin among themselves, I can count over one million people speaking Sindarin. These are social media communities, YouTube channels, chat rooms, forums and websites, digital libraries, and other resources. Again, I am only talking about online communities that I personally know. For this reason, my estimate of the number of people from around the world who use Sindarin to communicate cannot be completely objective, and the number of Sindarin-speakers is higher than this estimate. Within these communities, it seems normal for two people from different countries to use Sindarin as the universal language of international communication. But this is all, of course, an empty sound, not worth the slightest bit of attention. The Sindarin language is studied in the most important universities of the world on a par with other conlangs. Probably all the students studying Sindarin and its teachers do not exist either.
2. The evidence for the use of the Sindarin language as a means of authentic communication is quite extensive and well known. I apologize if that sounded too harsh, but personally, I don't ignore such popular facts. Many years ago I met people on the street who were into The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and who spoke fluent languages unknown to me. It wasn't until many years later that I learned that this gibberish was Tolkien's languages, and it wasn't until many more years later that I took up learning them myself. I can't claim that this phenomenon of subcultures speaking Tolkien's languages and being fascinated by Tolkien's work was widespread all over the world. But just as I have met people like that on the streets, I have met people who are passionate about Star Trek and who speak Klingon with each other on the streets. The main thing that both of these phenomena have in common is well-developed conlangs and an enthusiastic public. The elaborate nature of Sindarin comes from Tolkien's passion for creating languages and continues in the research work of linguists engaged in the development of Sindarin, studying Tolkien's work on this and other languages. There is a common, unified set of language rules, a large, freely expandable dictionary of common words (elfdict and others) is known, and members of the communities regularly share their thoughts on vocabulary and sometimes rules. Journals are published that publish Tolkien's previously unknown work on Sindarin, Quenya, and his other languages. Agree that all this material is a bit much for a language no one speaks.
For these reasons, I find the above claim about the small number of Sindarin speakers unfounded. It is likely that Sindarin speakers are underrepresented among Wikipedia contributors by now, but that is a problem in and of itself. If there are no Sindarin materials, native Sindarin speakers won't come, and if authors don't come, there won't be a growing volume of materials. This is a problem common to everything and finds itself in any sphere of human activity, such as: industry, services, education, and so on. As a fluent Sindarin speaker, I will use my knowledge and experience to create and refine automated translation tools, which will enable me to overcome the accumulation of Sindarin materials faster and get Sindarin-speaking authors from all over the world to participate in the project.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 06:48, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of words, no evidence. You mention Klingon; we can go to Klingon's wiki page and see a bunch of stuff done in Klingon. There's more references on w:Klingon Language Institute. Where is your HolQeD or your ghIlghameS? Why is w:Sindarin#Use_of_Sindarin one paragraph? A million people speaking Sindarin would give a thousand times as many speakers as Klingon and arguably beat Esperanto as the most spoken conlang, and yet w:Arika Okrent didn't notice it. Yes, Tolkien's personal writings are being published; that doesn't prove that anyone communicates with Sindarin, just that Tolkien's work is of interest.
I repeat myself: "The number of people in the world who speak and communicate with Sindarin is approximately zero. Despite requests, you have never shown the slightest evidence that anyone has ever used Sindarin as a medium of genuine communication, even at the level of Klingon."--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:57, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Prosfilaes Thank you for your response. It's interesting topic. First, I am not responsible for the content of the Sindarin language page in English. On the page, I translated this block without changing the content, to best match the original. Secondly, I have no doubt that 1 million people is a notable number, but I do not in any way diminish the importance and massiveness of the Klingon language. Moreover, I believe that there may be even more Klingon speakers in the world than there are Sindarin speakers, thanks in part to the active promotion of the movies and TV series that are part of the popular Star Trek universe. Third, I pay my respects to Ms. Okrent, but I slightly doubt that she has ever heard of the many thousands of linguist Alexey Letunov and other linguists who now study and teach Sindarin around the world and their interactions with each other. Fourth, I am not saying that the publication of Tolkien's personal writings should prove anything. Yes, it speaks to the public's interest in them, and with it, to their study. Fifthly, your assumption that "the number of people in the world who speak and communicate in Sindarin is approximately zero" is unscientific, because the scientific method does not imply a denial of anything (and the statement above is a clear denial) based on a clear disregard, of the actual facts, but the acceptance of any facts, even the weakest ones, and their logical and reasonable comprehension. I can cite not even just and not so much the interviews as the videos, screenshots of correspondence on Sindarin and other information. I don't know if this information will look convincing enough, but I am willing to beg permission to publish it from those who might be affected by it. I know I shouldn't have any doubts, but looking at your personal attitudes toward the subject I have raised, I imagine the reaction to any evidence of mine is the only one possible. Someone else might perceive them differently, and in any case, the reaction of the public at large will be mixed. Nevertheless, for me personally, it is gratifying to have skeptics (though not entirely objective) in the ranks of the interested public, no doubt awaiting the verdict on the project. Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 09:23, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not Ms. Okrent; it's Dr. Okrent, who has a degree in linguistics and is one of the world's leading authorities on conlangs.
One million is impossible; the estimate for Klingon is 20-50 fluent speakers.w:Esperanto#Geography_and_demography tosses around many numbers, but one million is generally considered an overestimate, and we're talking 20,000 members in Esperanto groups around the world. Note also the wide disparity in numbers; making such estimates is hard.
I've asked very specific questions, and you've ignored them. Once again, if the Sindarin speaking community is as large as or much larger than Klingon, where is your HolQeD or your ghIlghameS? Where is your Sindarin Language Institute?
Sure. There's one video where someone dropped some Elvish for fun. If you were so scientific, you would have brought that as evidence. It's still not people using Elvish for communication, like say .--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:07, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First, let us define the terms. First, when I called Dr. Okrent "Ms." I referred to her in a respectful way. I don't know if you realize this, but in my country and culture, the word "Mistress" is a respectful epithet and even refers to a woman. Secondly, you express your doubts about how much one speaks freely, using one conlang or another. In my own country alone, I know of one small online community of 11,000 Sindarinists, where everyone learns and speaks Sindarin fluently. It exists within one of the local social networks. At the same time, after wandering around the English-language Internet, I find whole sites and forums where people do the same thing and also speak Sindarin fluently. I observe the same if I search for these communities in German, French, Spanish and other languages I know. The social network Discord is popular today, where there are also servers where people learn Sindarin and communicate in it. In this case, I cite for the third time the most simple and superficial examples, and the fact that I do it repeatedly, receiving a clear rejection of the facts I cite as a response, is perceived by me personally as a conversation for the sake of a conversation, or as a conversation in which you do not set a specific end goal, as you do not fully understand the subject of discussion. For my part, of course, I am not objective, and the above opinions about you and the dialogue with you are only my personal fleeting opinion, which I will have time to change after your response. On a side note: Skepticism is good when it has reasonable limits and is used as a basis for constructive discussion of a topic, but it does not lead a dialogue in circles. Third, you ask whether there is a single Sindarin language university. So, there is The World Elvish Language Association (WELA), the official magazine Eldalamberon, there are websites eldamo, elfdict, and others. Sindarin teaches at the University of Wisconsin, Moscow State University, and other universities around the world, and conducts seminars. The names of Torsten Renck, David Salo, Nancy March, Bill Welden, Edward Klotzko, Alexey Letunov, and many other linguists who study and develop Sindarin are well known. In giving all these examples earlier, I assumed that this is all part of the common knowledge. However, the data available to each of us is determined by our environment and interests.
I realize that the parsing of terms may have been a bit harsh and incorrect, but I found it useful to make sure that you and I understood each other correctly. I was prompted to do so by your comment "not madam, but doctor". About the Klingon video, I can only express my admiration. It's wonderful that people don't shy away and record conversational videos using conlang to express their thoughts, feelings and emotions. In the case of Sindarin, I can cite more text correspondence than video or speech recordings, and the ones I will cite may be perceived by you personally with a degree of disdain I already know, but that is not what the scientific method is all about. Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 23:00, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Science depends on verifiable claims; citations are quite important. Someone saying "I saw Bigfoot" doesn't get much traction, so I don't see why you think telling me what you say you saw should convince me. You don't link anything above. As I said on meta, the World Elvish Language Association is a sad website that doesn't have a snip of original Sindarin on it. Eldalamberon is another sad website that hasn't been updated in five years, and again, I don't see any original Sindarin on it. The listing of journal contents are in English and seem to be talking about Tolkien's works, not writing in Sindarin.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:04, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Evidence that a subject has seen a Bigfoot can be verbally asserted on several different occasions, including the ubiquity of Bigfoot all over the world. In such a situation, seeing a Bigfoot is a rare event, but more than possible, comparable to coming to the wilderness today and seeing a bear, tiger, or lion. Just because subject A saw a lion in the wilderness and subject B did not, does not mean that lions do not exist, no matter what subject B says. It means that subject A and subject B exist on such different planes of interest that subject A has seen a lion and other wild animals, and subject B will, given his own desire and formation of personal opportunities, make the trip to places where he can see live lions.
Eldalamberon can be a little more interesting and informative than simply referring to Tolkien's work. For example, a search engine immediately brings up pages like these from their journals:
And many, many others. In this journal, information about Tolkien's languages is laid out, and various edits and clarifications and lexicons are periodically published. Thanks to them, by now there have been fewer inconsistencies between the authors of the Sindarin language manuals. This journal additionally marks various Sindarin words as obsolete, which is reflected in the content of Sindarin dictionary sites and print editions. Since new and corrected dictionaries are published much more often than the Eldalamberon site is updated, it can be assumed that the editors of the magazine are working "the old-fashioned way" and do not have time or a dedicated person to update it. Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 06:08, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Missing links on Special:Contributions for en-gb

Could someone copy MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer to MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer/en-gb so that the links at the bottom of Special:Contributions are available when using en-gb as the interface language? They're currently missing. :( - Nikki (talk) 14:29, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

User:Nikki: Done. For the record, this is a super-old bug: phabricator:T50956. --MF-W {a, b} 23:18, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Request for XML file for Sichuanese Mandarin Wikipedia

Hi, I will like to have the XML file for Wp/scm, thanks.--Jonathan5566 (talk) 00:12, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is no such thing. --MF-W {a, b} 01:38, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, sorry for that. Jonathan5566 (talk) 12:51, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Broken language code

I try adding the "simple" code for Simple English, and it does not work! — The preceding unsigned comment was added by TylerMagee (discussioncontribs) 07:52, 5 November 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Obviously, as it is not a valid I:ISO 639 code. --MF-W {a, b} 12:49, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wp/mi-cha creation

It won't let me create a Moriori Wikipedia test. The two ISO codes for it are mi-cha and mi-u-sd-nzcit. The Glottolog code is mori1267. Can someone fix this? A Moriori Wikipedia would be a great way to revive the extinct Moriori language, formerly spoken on the Chatham Islands of New Zealand. Thanks. 2001:8003:3670:D800:E7:4FA6:2B73:93AB 23:26, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is impossible for now, because Moriori doesn't have ISO 639-3 code for now, all codes you provided are invalid for Incubator testing. But a probably good news is SIL request 2019-007, a request to grant rrm for Moriori, you may want to focus on its status. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:11, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also, please note that extinct languages generally cannot get a Wikipedia project. Do you speak Moriori? --MF-W {a, b} 13:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I speak a bit of it. It's pretty close to Māori. Sorry for the late response. 2001:8003:3C19:A200:6C2D:B6A2:F8AE:1EDC 21:27, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Erranous abuse filter

I was trying to revert vandalism om a talk page when an abuse filter denied me that with the error message "Bogus". --Sabelöga (talk) 23:56, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the note, I reverted the edit and adjusted the filter. --MF-W {a, b} 13:42, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Unable to edit test wiki despite having a valid ISO-639-3 code, Middle English is allowed, I dont see why Yola would not be. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by MichaelDMelvin23 (discussioncontribs) 13:08, 2 December 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Vice versa; Middle English should also not be allowed, but is "grandfathered". --MF-W {a, b} 13:37, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean Middle English is “grandfathered”? Yola has a valid language code, and if a test wiki for middle english is allowed there is absolutely no reason to not allow a test wiki for yola taalke. --MichaelDMelvin23 13:53, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
You may want to read w:Forth and Bargy dialect, that's been extinct for at least 2 centuries. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:13, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

StevenJ81's remaining user access

StevenJ81 has been inactive for two years. He is still a "translator administrator". What to do about it? --George Ho (talk) 07:35, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anything needs to be done, though of course any bureaucrat could remove it if he so desires (same for SPQRobin). --MF-W {a, b} 20:13, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Translate this page to Dalmatian language

Several years I'm trying to edit pages in Dalmatian language but every time I start again it someone or somethings bloced me and I fail. Why?MaritaDalmatina (talk) 10:21, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Which page disallows you from translation? Anyway, interface translations are handled by translatewiki: Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 15:38, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]