Wikimedia Incubator

Incubator:Requests for starting a test/Archive 3

< Incubator:Requests for starting a test

2019

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Eastern Frisian Wikipedia

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Hello, I want to request a Eastern Frisian Wikipedia. At the time Eastern Frisian Wikipedia was rejected because the decision was it is in the nds (Plattdüütsch) Wikipedia. But the languages are not the same! Eastern Frisian has a high substrate of frisian words, a frisian gramatic and a frisian sentencestructure. Because of that the language is much more like saterlandic frisian with has its own Wikipedia. In the nds-Wikipedia East Frisian writers are not abled to write their language because many words arent understoud by normal nds-writers. Eastern Frisian and the nds also have different orthogrphic systems. So there is huge difference in writing. People from East Frisia doesnt use the nds Wikipedia because thats not their language.

Eastern Frisian has its own ISO code: frs Language Name: "Oostfreeske Taal" Main Page in Eastern Frisian means: Hoovdsied

Wev got several arguments why a East Frisian Wikipedia is needed:

Argument 1: The East-Frisian language is a standardized language with it’s own spelling, dictionary and detailed grammar book.

Argument 2: There is a living East-Frisian literature in which standard East-Frisian is used.

Argument 3: The East-Frisian standard language is taught in schools. Not just as a school subject, but also in immersion schools.

Argument 4: When East-Frisian is used in Low German language projects (like Wikipedia), it’s grammar and words are changed artificially in order to transform it into a Low German dialect.

Argument 5: The Frisians are a recognized ethnic minority in Germany and The Netherlands. The name of the language (Low German/Niederdeutsch/Plattdeutsch) is historically wrong. The Frisians are neither German (Germany) nor Dutch (The Netherlands). They are an indigenous people living in two states. The term used in East Frisia is "Oostfreeske Taal" or "Oostfreeske Platt" while "Oostfreeske Platt" means "East Frisian wich is easy to understand" in East Frisian.

Argument 6: The origin of the East-Frisian language is Frisian (like West-Frisian, Sater-Frisian and North-Frisian). The originally Frisian was mixed with German and Low German, still, East-Frisian remained it’s a huge part of it’s Frisian character.

Argument 7: We want a modern East-Frisian language in which new words can be embedded. We want our language to remain Frisian and be more Frisian in the future

We are going to translate for the languagecode frs now. After that we want to try building up some testarticles.

--Neronno (talk) 10:00, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Since there is the ISO 639-3 code "frs", you can edit Wp/frs. However, the decision of the eligibility of East Frisian is not decided on Incubator, but by the Language committee. For that, you can make a request with your arguments on Meta at m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia East Frisian, using the template at m:Language_committee/Handbook_(requesters). I see that the first request was not really rejected, but just closed as a part of the request reform process years ago. --MF-W {a, b} 18:35, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Neronno, MF-Warburg: Actually there was a real rejection just this past June (see m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia East Frisian Low Saxon). Now, this was one where I proposed rejection (see this message) and nobody objected, so a week later I went ahead and marked it as rejected. I certainly can't say there was a groundswell of support to reject, though.
As a separate issue, I deleted the single page of content (having a single line of content), because (a) that was trivial content and (b) based on the rejection of the request, I was trying to encourage contributors to go into one of the Low Saxon projects instead. In principle, since frs is a legitimate language code, there is no reason someone can't try to build a project here. Yet if it seems likely that the July 2018 rejection would not be reversed in the near future—and see also a related rejected request at m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Gronings—I don't know how hard we want to encourage a project that has a good chance of not making it at the end of the day.
Neronno, here's a question for you: should you perhaps code this as stq (Saterland Frisian) instead? StevenJ81 (talk) 19:20, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@StevenJ81:Hello, thanks for the support. No we dont want to code this stq. stq is Saterlandic Frisian. A frisian dialect spoken in the Saterland, 25 km from where I come from.

The East Frisian language spoken today in East Frisia with the ISO code frs is a language with the roots in the Frisian language, influenced by Low Saxon language. We (The new organisation Jungfreeske Meenskupp [Youngfrisian Community]) want to have a own Wikipedia for our language because of different orthography, grammar, sentencestructure and vocabulary of our language. This language cant be merged with the Gronings, which has the same pronounciation and is for some regions the same language, but different orthography based on dutch orthography. We are almost finished with the most important messages translation. What is next to get a real Wikipedia. Should we create content in the Incubator first? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neronno (discussion • contribs) 20:25, 22 January 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Yes, you will need to create content in the Incubator first, and you will need to have sufficient community activity to justify an approval. Without those things you have no chance.
Still, I will bring your attention to Item 3 under "Requisites for eligibility" in the Wikimedia Language proposal policy. There is a chance that even if you do a lot of work, Langcom will decide that East Frisian and Gronings are too close to Low Saxon to need a separate project—particularly as the Dutch Low Saxon project allows content in Gronings. If you are willing to take the chance that LangCom will say "no" at the end of the process anyway, then you are welcome to create a test project on Incubator. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:49, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@StevenJ81:Ok. We will start to create content and build up a community. At this point we think that the East Frisians as a minority with its own language, culture and literature should get its own Wikipedia. North and West Frisians have their own also. The Noth Frisian dialect Halunder is also Low Saxon influenced but it isnt forced to stay in a Low Saxon Wikipedia.
East Frisian isnt that much related to Low Saxon, I already pointed out that its roots are Frisian, not Saxon.
Anyway. Cant I may ask you a question about what happends to the incubator content if the proposal gets rejected? Will it be deleted?
Or can we move on after a rejection and give it another try? Neronno
It can be deleted, but only if someone makes a request for it and has some arguments for why it should be deleted. Usually test-projects whose request is rejected are not deleted. Some projects have multiple requests already. --MF-W {a, b} 08:32, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For clarification: are we talking about de:Ostfriesisches Niederdeutsch or de:Ostfriesische Sprache? --MF-W {a, b} 08:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@StevenJ81, MF-Warburg:East Frisian spoken today is often considert to be de:Ostfriesisches Niederdeutsch. But it is also de:Ostfriesische Sprache because the natives name it like that: "Oostfreeske Taal".
Considering "Oostfreeske Taal" as normal Low German is a political point of view.
But since Wikimedia isnt a political plattform, we thought we could give our language a chance.
You cant differentiate de:Ostfriesisches Niederdeutsch from de:Ostfriesische Sprache that hard because the languge today evolved from that and much charakter remaind. The difference to Saterlandic is, the this dialect got lower influence by the Low German. As a native I can talk to a Saterlandic person, both in their language and understand each other. Wenn I went down to the Emsland or other region, people cant understand me because of my frisian words.
For clarification: I am a young native speaker of this language, from a moor/marsh region with has intact frisian vocabulary remain.
Todays language has also high amount of frisian vocabulary and sentencestructure.
The language with its own structures and frisian words is thought in school.
When East-Frisian is used in Low German language projects (like Wikipedia), it’s grammar and words are changed artificially in order to transform it into some Low German standarddialect.
It charcteristics get lost with this.
So East Frisians arent abled to write their language in such a projects.
We are forced to use a Writing called Sassch writing, wich is some Low German from Holstein, very differnt vocabulary and sentencestrukture.
I got a communtity waiting for my go, to create pages at the East Frisian Wikipedia.
We want to give this a try. The East Frisian writers from the Low German Wiki can also start here.
Today we finished the most importan Wikimedia messages.
Give us a chance since we are a official minority in the EU, living in two states.
Northern Frisians and Western Frisian, also Saterlandic Frisians have their Wikipedia with their language, why cant we as a minority. Other so named Low Germans are no minorithys and havent evolved from Frisian, they all evolved from Old Saxon.
We are different.Neronno (talk) 14:59, 23 January 2019 (GMT)
In addition as it can be read here ETHNOLOGUE FRS the ISO Code counts for both. Thats is because of the big part still is in the language today. We think that a seperate Wiki is a chance to also get the frisian roots into the foreground. In this wiki old East Frisian Literiture and Music (like "Buske di Remmer" in Harlinger East Frisian) could also get a place. In this Wiki we were abled to write our language just like it is, without any artificial edits. Our minority language must have a place. Neronno (talk) 16:11, 23 January 2019 (GMT)
At this point, as we've said already, you are allowed to create a test project here, and don't have to keep making a case right now. (In fact, you should not, and certainly not here.) You have a couple of different choices here.
  1. Start creating a test project here. After you have created 200–500 pages, go to Meta and create a new "Requests for new languages" page. It is on that page, and at that time, that you should make a case in favor of your project. Understand that LangCom may or may not choose to allow an independent project, but I can assure you that your work won't be lost. Probably it can just stay here; at worst, we would move it to the new Incubator Plus 2.0 on Miraheze.
  2. Make your request on Meta now and get an idea of whether LangCom has a strong opinion about this. If LangCom says no right away, then you should probably really just start your work on Miraheze from the beginning. But if LangCom says yes, you'll know that when your project is fully developed, it can move toward approval as a Wikipedia.
Personally, I'd recommend #1, but that's really your choice. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:46, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We will go #1. Thats the best way to proof that the language is different. Neronno (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2019 (GMT)

Dargwa Wikipedia

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--Iliyas Musaev Dagestan (talk) 14:11, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Iliyas Musaev Dagestan: You are off to a good start. Good luck. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:37, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Starting a Wikipedia project for the Nandi language

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Hi, I would like to start the above wiki. The ISO 639 code for the Naandi language is niq. Pejit Netai which literally translates to Page First, read First Page, is the closest cognate with Main Page.--Eren Gatiat (talk) 15:58, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please go ahead, and good luck! StevenJ81 (talk) 15:26, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Starting a Wikimedia project for a question/answer site.

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Language: en

Which Project: new project

The goal is to have a Q&A site similar-ish to quora or stackoverflow but in a wiki format. Users will create a new page for their question, and answerers will edit sections into the page providing answers. Although stackoverflow and quora are more "user-focused" in the sense that which answer and/or question belongs to whom is an important part of the site, it is not clear that a successful question-and-answer type site hinges upon this feature. An experiment to have a functional wiki-version of such a site would be very educational, and the lessons learned may help inform future wikimedia projects.

--Gitpushoriginmaster (talk) 19:59, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2020

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ⵜⴰⵔⵉⴼⵉⵜ

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Tifinagh is the original letter of all Berber dialects — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sido4646455 (discussion • contribs) 20:52, 22 February 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Mara Wikiproject

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your reason here. --Mara Biebu (talk) 13:21, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mara language also known as Tlôsaih language is the language spoken by Mara people who live in Myanmar and India.— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mara Biebu (discussion • contribs) 13:23, 29 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

You should be more precise. Please choose one project to start with. --OWTB (talk) 13:34, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mozarabic Wiktionary

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--User:Romandalusí

Do you have knowledge of Mozarabic? --MF-W {a, b} 19:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I wrote http://almuzaralibros.com/fichaautor.php?autor=3127&edi=1 User:Romandalusí
Please note that it will be difficult to get this approved, considering Mozarabic is an extinct language. --OWTB (talk) 06:30, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
but there's not the only one extinct language on wiktionary and there's medieval glossarys and vocabulary preserved. That, why y thought about wiktionary (and no other wikiproject) indeed. Also, The translation of The little Prince un Mozarabic will be edited soon — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Romandalusí (discussion • contribs) 06:57, 21 August 2020 (UTC).[reply]
You can of course try to start a Mozarabic Wiktionary here. However, I would suggest to instead contribute Mozarabic entries to another Wiktionary, like the English or Spanish one. That has two advantages: 1) wider visibility, 2) the infrastructure (e.g. template, technical features) is already there and you don't need to create it yourself. --MF-W {a, b} 08:56, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Of course! . It's something i usually do already, but perhaps we could get both of this, a Mozarabic wiktionary and entries to a other wiktionarys. Regards. User:Romandalusí
Sure, then feel free to start something at Wp/mxi. --MF-W {a, b} 14:28, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Klingon Wikipedia

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I would like to request Klingon Wikipedia, a conlang used for Star Trek. Its iso code is tlh --Altan2489 (talk) 21:59, 24 September 2020 (UTC) Also the wiki article is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language[reply]

Hello. Klingon is a constructed language that does not have enough fluent speakers, and it is thought that it will not satisfy the eligibility of LPP. See m:History of the Klingon Wikipedia and m:Requests for new languages/Wiktionary Klingon. --Sotiale (talk) 01:37, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Carpathian Romani Wikipedia

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--Adehertogh (talk) 18:08, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wp/kcg/Tyap Wikipedia

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Test project. Kambai Akau (talk) 23:48, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's fine, go ahead. --MF-W {a, b} 11:00, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2021

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Simple English Wikivoyage

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Justarandomamerican (talk) 01:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

New Simple projects are not possible. --MF-W {a, b} 09:27, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pidgin English Wikipedia

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  • Proposed project: Wikipedia
  • Language: Pidgin

Ghanaian Pidgin English language and this is the Wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghanaian_Pidgin_English DaSupremo (talk) 11:09, 19 February 2021 (UTC) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-38000387 DaSupremo (talk) 11:09, 19 February 2021 (UTC) ISO 639-2 Code: gpe DaSupremo (talk) 11:09, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pidgin is widely spoken in West Africa especially in Ghana and Nigeria. Pidgin language produce knowledge as most people speak it because it is a combination of English and other local dialects. This makes it easy for people to interact without any difficulties. BBC for instance, launched the use of Pidgin in its activities.<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-38000387></https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-38000387> So I think when Pidgin language is introduced to the Wikimedia Movement, it will help in achieving the movement's aim of making knowledge free and accessible to all. DaSupremo (talk) 11:09, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Do you plan to write articles yourself in Pidgin English? Specifically, what variant? I think there might possibly be a problem as the code "cpe" (which is not an ISO 639-3 code, which we normally use, but a -2 code, as you said) is for "English based Creoles and pidgins". So there would be the question if all of them can share one wiki. --MF-W {a, b} 02:07, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes...I plan to write articles myself and also involve other community volunteers in Ghana. We intend to use the Ghanaian pidgin English variant. Concerning the code, can "gpe" be put in place of "cpe" since it is a problem? Thanks DaSupremo (talk) 22:32, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, gpe can be used. --MF-W {a, b} 23:08, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the feedback DaSupremo (talk) 23:35, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-reform Russian

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Recently, the pre-reform Russian language has been gaining popularity among certain groups in Russia. Russians wrote in pre-reform Russian before the October Revolution. It would be cool to create such a section, many people will immediately start editing it. The problem is the lack of language code, where ru-old is found, but not everywhere. --Arseniy1302 (talk) 22:53, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is not possible. --MF-W {a, b} 10:47, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why? We have Simple English and Latin wikipedia.
New such projects are not covered by the Language Proposal Policy. "ru-old" requests have already been rejected multiple times. --MF-W {a, b} 16:45, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And for what reasons were they rejected? Why they are not covered by the Language Proposal Policy?

2022

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Pazeh Wikiproject

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Pazeh is one of the Formosan languages. It was mistreated as the same language as Kulon. And now the application of new code for Pazeh has passed. I would like to contribute to the Wikiproject of the language with the new code. --Cosinepi-fly (talk) 12:52, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seems now moved. --MF-W {a, b} 22:52, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Starting Jewish Palestinian Aramaic Wikipedia

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I want to start a test Wikipedia project in the language of Jewish Palestinian Aramaic. According to what was written on English Wikipedia the ISO 639 code was: ga, but actually this code is currently used for Irish. The correct code for Jewish Palestinian Aramaic now is: jpa. So I changed it on Wikipedia. But still the incubator doesn't let me start this test Wiki because it says that this is not valid code. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Palestinian_Aramaic Eliahu21 (talk) 14:17, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As an extinct language, it is not eligible. --MF-W {a, b} 10:05, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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