Incubator:Requests for deletions

This is an official Incubator policy.
This page has been elaborated and approved by the community and its compliance is mandatory for all users. You may edit it, but please discuss major changes on the talk page first.

This page is for nominating test wikis for deletion, or for nominating pages related to the maintenance of the Incubator for deletion. For discussing about the deletion of pages in a specific test wiki, please use the relevant talk pages where the editors of the test wiki are most active in to discuss them (such as the talk page of the test wiki's main page). Pages that should be speedily deleted should be tagged with {{delete}} with a proper reason.

Common reason for deleting pages here on Incubator include:

  • Speedy deletion requests (vandalism, spelling corrections, correcting prefixes etc.)
  • Deletion of a complete test wiki according to the policy's section "Closure or Deletion"
  • If a project is given final approval by the language committee, the test's pages will be imported to the new subdomain wiki. All pages here will be deleted, except the info page.

Deletion policyEdit

Requests for deleting single pagesEdit

  • Pages that may be subject to speedy deletion:
    • In general, the rules for speedy deletion are the same as listed on Meta.
      • One rule for speedy deletion unique to Incubator is that pages in the wrong language — either with a prefix reflecting an invalid ISO 639 language code, or written in a language different from the one in the prefix — can be deleted.
      • Similarly, pages having an incorrect prefix where a copy with a correct prefix also exists are eligible for speedy deletion. Please include a link to the correctly prefixed page on the deletion template.
    • Speedy deletions may be proposed by putting {{delete}} (and a reason) on the pages that should be deleted and will thereby be added to Category:Maintenance:Delete, where an administrator will decide about them. It is not needed to vote on a speedy deletion. If there are doubts, the administrator reviewing the speedy deletion request will ask the proposer. If you have doubts, but are not an administrator, you are also free to add a remark below the {{delete}} template on the page.
      If the reason you give is because the current name is wrong, somehow (grammar, spelling, etc.), administrators normally assume the content has been moved to a different (better) location. It will help the administrators if you include a link to the moved page in your deletion request.
      Consider turning the wrong spelling into a redirect to the right spelling before asking for deletion. (And please note that if the wrong spelling is likely to be a common misspelling, it may be useful to leave the redirect, both here and once your test is in its own subdomain.)
      If you do not turn the wrong spelling into a redirect, please simply add {{delete}} to the top of the page. Do not blank out the rest of the page.
    • Please remember: pages cannot be speedy-deleted as long as other pages link to them. Please modify all incoming links before requesting speedy deletion; otherwise, simply leave the original page as a redirect. (Note: This rule doesn't always apply to incoming links from discussion pages and similar administrative pages, if the discussion is already settled.)
  • In other cases, you may put a request below.

Requests for test deletionsEdit

  1. You can propose the deletion of an entire test-wiki. Common reasons for this can be that langcom has rejected the creation of this wiki as a separate project, or that the test-wiki only contains nonsensical content not written in the language it should be in.
    1. You can vote, but it has just a little bit of influence. Arguments are better.
    2. You can propose moving the test to the Incubator Plus.
  2. After 10 days, an administrator will make a decision about deleting the test or not. For obvious cases, especially when the pages only contain vandalism/spam/test edits, a decision can be made earlier.
  3. If needed, an XML file must be exported (needed means: if the test is not vandalism or nonsense – in general, use common sense).
  4. Remember that this has nothing directly to do with the decision of the language committee (langcom).

Requests for undeletionsEdit

All requests for deleted pages to be restored can be added below, as well.

RequestsEdit

Wp/odt, Wt/odt and Wp/dumEdit

Believe me, this hurts! I love the older stages of my native language.

But we can't keep them, per language policy, and for the obvious reason that these projects haven't gained momentum. Old Dutch is very scantily transmitted, you'd have to reconstruct just too many words to even write a lemma about medieval things. It also has far fewer proficient readers than Old English. Middle Dutch does have a rich literature in all genres from religion to accountancy, and (in its written form) is much more different from modern Dutch than Middle English is from modern English, but again, a Wikipedia in it would violate policy and would probably never be succesful. And it, too, might attract nonsense edits. Steinbach (talk) 11:12, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Weak keep: On a first glance, the quality looks relatively well, so I wouldn't mind keeping them here. In case, the community decides otherwise, I will gladly export it to Incubator Plus as it would be a shame to see what little is there being deleted. --OWTB (talk) 20:32, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm not commenting on their quality (btw wasn't it you who created both of them years ago). I'm just saying: why keep them here if there is absolutely no chance that they will ever be approved? Steinbach (talk) 17:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
I have only created the main pages to accompany any pre-existing subpages. The reason for not deleting them is that, while there is no chance for a subdomain, they are according to our policy valid, as they have an ISO-code. Deleting good contents is always unnecessary. As I'm more or less neutral to keeping them (and Wt/odt?) here, I am always willing to export them to Incubator Plus. --OWTB (talk) 07:59, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
OWTB, I'd love to also mention Wt/odt in this section as it looks also badly contributed. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:26, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Regareless, delete both, having bad quality articles that are wrongly maintained. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:20, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
In case of deletion, please let me know, and I'll transfer them to Incubator Plus. --OWTB (talk) 06:11, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
@Ooswesthoesbes I don't think they need to be exported since they are possibly copyvio pages. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:26, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
The Old Dutch (odt) tests don't look like they are copyvio pages though. The Middle Dutch (dum) do look more suspicious. --OWTB (talk) 20:55, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Wp/sjnEdit

Rejected request at Meta. 4 content pages, all added in the last month. I think the editor should be given the chance to save their work before it's deleted since it is an ineligible conlang. -Yupik (talk) 00:23, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

  • Hello! I would expect to receive a justification for the removal of this project. This project is currently developing and has all the prospects for further growth.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 11:21, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
  • I presented a couple of additional arguments in defense of the project and refuted the arguments made by those not interested in preserving it. Also, I want to separately note that all of these arguments against the project are, by now, outdated. In this regard, I am in favor of reconsidering this decision.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 15:33, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep for reasons in m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Sindarin 2.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 11:56, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep for the time being, because a request is created on Meta: m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Sindarin 2. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:45, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete. I don't believe in success of the request for creation of the project. None of the Wikimedia projects in a fictional language exist. The possibility of creation of Wikipedias in ancient (natural) languages causes bloody disputes in MetaWiki, Wikipedias in constructed languages - way more useful - look doubtful for many, how we can take seriosly the Sindarin WP. However, I respect your interest. --Wolverène (talk) 07:00, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Hello Wolverene. I have no objection to your skepticism, nevertheless I argue in the possibility of translating wikipedia both into Sindarin and other constructed languages and into languages of antiquity. Modern technology makes it possible to do such translation in an automated way, provided there is a sufficiently large corpus of texts in the target language. Since the Internet today is a boundless ocean of information, you can find texts in almost any language, as well as reference information, and in some cases qualified specialists. Thus, I was able to form a small text corpus for the neural network. My experiments in terms of training the neural network automatic translation in Sindarin, in turn, also confirm the feasibility of the implementation of this plan. So I am sure that sooner or later, if there are people interested in translating Wikipedia into one language or another, this translation will be done. Please, don't bury something that is almost paved the way for.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 18:39, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Wolverène thank you for your opinion one more time. And, I bring some arguments. Particulary, this:

The approach taken during the work on the wikipedia section on Sindarin is potentially beneficial for the further development of wikipedia as a whole, as it involves some new methods for creating textual content.

If we take Ancient Egyptian as an example, training a neural network on texts from Ancient Egyptian manuscripts would greatly speed up the translation of articles into Ancient Egyptian. Since any language is a system which can be described mathematically, under certain conditions (linguists who know the language of Ancient Egypt and programmers will have to be involved) it is possible to create an algorithmic apparatus which can automatically reconstruct the necessary words and turns of speech for the target language.

Reconstructing the words of an arbitrary language is easily solved by means of a Markov chain algorithm. It is the easiest way to solve it, and quite efficient for cases where only the set of words is known, but the rules of the language are unknown. In the case of Sindarin, and, as I assume, with the ancient Egyptian language, the set of rules of word formation is known. In such a situation, having a set of ready-made rules, it is always possible to write a program that will allow, observing all these rules, to construct words in an arbitrary number and with a given set of characteristics or even meanings.

And so I am sure of the underestimation of the wikipedia project on Sindarin and its importance.

I'm sure no one will have to fight for space for new language sections on Wikipedia after this. If you think I should first establish myself on a project for one of those ancient languages over which there is bitter controversy, show me that project. Although I think I would be more useful and produce a better result if I did the project of translating Wikipedia into a language I know, I'm not afraid of new things.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 11:40, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

  • Keep because this project have some content. @Wolverène: What is eo:, vo:, lfn:, ia:, ie:? 103.6.198.192
    • These are Wikipedias in auxlangs. It's different from Sindarin which is an artlang and used for its more narrow purpose. --Wolverène (talk) 08:58, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep there’s a community of speakers. While it’s true that it has a “narrow” purpose next to international auxiliary languages, wikis in Lingua Franca Nova aren’t much more useful than this one. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 09:22, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
    • I think even Simlish may has an IRL community of speakers...
      Just try to use Sindarin to describe such concepts and events as (here are random ones) en:quantum mechanics, en:gamma-ray burst, en:Lutheranism, en:tundra shrew, en:Watergate scandal, en:Cuban Missile Crisis, and so on.
      Curiously enough, but if we had enough linguistic material, we could describe all of this stuff e.g. in any natural aboriginal moribund language, although the formulating would be often much more compicated comparing to definition written in more spread lingua franca. I also believe that these concepts could be even described in several ancient languages, like Latin or Ancient Greek, - although during the eras of ancient languages the terms and concepts of the modern world didn't exist, using scientific data we can at least guess how ancient people might've described the modern things, and it's an interesting experience if performed by professional linguists. Also needless to say about international auxiliary languages. In LFN the specific concepts would probably be described in a same way as natural creole languages do, Kotava has special a priori language methods of implementing new words, Esperanto is as same developed as natural languages.
      Now back to the Sindarin language. It is totally unable to describe things like 'gamma-ray burst' or 'Lutheranism', because the language is spoken by Tolkienesqe Elves who never existed in reality, resp. they never crossed paths with the events of the real world, and Tolkien didn't complete the language enough to make it used especially for the knowledge sharing (surely you know that Wikipedia exists exactly for the knowledge sharing). --Wolverène (talk) 13:07, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
      @Wolverène Sindarin can describe Quantum mechanics, gamma-ray burst, and another concepts and events. Luther, Cuba are proper names. If we want them to be immediately recognizable in the text, we may not translate them into Sindarin. Gamma is the name of a letter of the Greek alphabet, and is absent from the Sindarin script. In Tengwar it corresponds to the Tengva Ungwe, but the reader will not immediately understand what it means. Therefore, we can also transliterate the word "gamma" without change. We have: raeth Ungwe-glîn \ raeth 'amma-glîn, Lutheras, Cuba. If we want to transliterate the name of Cuba, we get Daerhad, and without a clue most readers will not immediately know what it is about and will probably want to keep the word in the original. Quantum mechanics is godanmaenas glinui. Thainad Ventol vi Cuba, Thainad Ventol vi Daerhad. Amlabgaeth vi Ninannon, Amlabgaeth vi Watergate, Amlabgaeth Watergate, and Rhosgarch Rudhorodui. It's simple.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 10:37, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
      @Wolverène When I asked for information about Simlish, I found the following information: this language is based on a large number of natural languages from which it borrows its vocabulary. I did not manage to find the exact rules of Simlish. However, the Simlish language is popular and serves as a language of creative expression for some music groups. Whether it is possible to record and reproduce information about the world around us in this language is an open question. Since the main goal in creating Simlish was to briefly and clearly convey information about the state of the game's characters without spending money on additional localization of their lines, this language is intuitively understandable to the target audience of The Sims game for which it was created. I do not know exactly whether Simlish has enough textual data to be used to train a neural network for automated translation to convey and retain information. However, this language is outside my area of expertise, and I am not in a position to answer for it. Perhaps someday someone will come to translate Wikipedia into Simlish, but let those directly affected be concerned.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 14:16, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
    • P.S. What's for the usage of mathematical algorithms for creating articles in Sindarin, which was proposed by @Calad-ne-dúath, I can imagine a possible result: a story generator-like texts with inclusions of AI generated words in cases when a term in Sindarin is unknown. BoredHumans.com does it for long, but in English. Assuming that the knowledge sharing purpose will be already relegated to the background and everyone would be agree with it, I'm not sure that definitions modeled like 'Wolf is a red rabbit who rides the yellow trees' will be useful for intellectual pleasure of Tolkien fans.
      For me AI generated texts are even a bigger evil than online translations which devalue the intellectual work of speakers of any language other than English, moreover in an imperfect manner. Technically, AI generated texts in languages with a smaller speaking community (like Sindarin, hell we assume it has a speaking community...) may contain anything, even a complete nonsense, and the enthusiasts will always justify it by smaller known vocabulary. Once I saw AI generated texts in (natural) Veps language, it was a total disaster. Imagine same with Sindarin. --Wolverène (talk) 13:07, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
      @Wolverène, I thank you for your opinion. I understand your concern about this problem very well. No, I do not approve of surrealistic texts in Sindarin that have the "the wolf is a red rabbit" look. Their use can be valuable for training a neural network to translate, but it makes no sense to use such texts for training transformer-class neural networks, unless the goal of such neural networks is knowingly to generate surrealistic texts. Such a neural network would be very interesting to see, but it is a dabble for a couple of evenings. When I do automated text corpus generation, I aim to fill it with sentences formed on the principle of existing texts using Sindarin and natural languages, and, if necessary, manually, or also automatically - using algorithms based on pre-formulated rules - remove lines that do not meet the requirements. Let us imagine that there is a certain dictionary in which each word has many tags. Generating and checking rules use these tags, generating texts that look like what is really possible. For example, a tagged first-person singular verb denoting an action is placed at the beginning of the line, followed by an action verb infinitive, and so on. Subjects, predicate clauses, prepositions, and prearranged turns of speech are all combined in a large number of variants and formed in an arbitrary number. Any phrase, any sentence, and any word can be broken down into its components, set tags, and then use those tags to form words and phrases. Knowing in advance the effect of manipulating the individual elements of a word or phrase, you can also set its meaning, avoiding "bottomless ducks swimming in a square sky". So, I want to say that automation in the formation of a text corpus is a necessary and useful thing, it easily simplifies such a difficult task. But that's if we're talking about automation, which requires the creation of previously nonexistent content. If we want to get existing content ever uploaded to the Internet in some form, this is where python scripts come to our aid, capable of easily loading all texts from a search engine with and without translations, and filtering out repetitive strings. Later, a self-written script can check these texts line by line and output new formulas for automated phrase generation. In short, there are many different subtleties in this business, but it is thanks to them that we are now able to make translation into arbitrary languages possible, even if this task, for individual languages among them, seemed previously unimaginable.--Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 10:03, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment We have gone through this again and again. Personally I don't think fictional languages should be eligible for a Wikipedia. The main reason for this is practical rather than a matter a principle. We only had one such project long ago, a Klingon Wikipedia, and it didn't succeed. Experience has learnt that such languages are unlikely to sustain a viable community. Second, while Klingon has a well-developed vocabulary, Tolkien's elven languages are more obscure. Comparatively little is known of their vocabularies, which makes writing in them alone challenging. That's clearly not the road to success.
I must say, however, that I do not concur with Wolverène when it comes to the supposed usefulness of artlangs. Auxiliary languages may potentially be very useful, but apart from Esperanto none of them has a sizeable community. Their purpose of serving as a second language for all of humanity is so out of reach that they're really just toys for language geeks. Who needs Kotava or Novial? But anyway, auxlang wikis prove to thrive at least a bit better, so well...
Now finally, should this test wiki be deleted? I think it should, but admittedly it doesn't hurt me. We should get straight what test wikis to delete. I supported the deletion of Old Dutch, Middle Dutch, and Middle English test wikis before, but this was rejected. So why should we be harsher to this one? Steinbach (talk) 23:49, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
I thank you very much for your comment. Although I am not very familiar with the Klingon language, I nevertheless assume a great deal of work went into creating the Klingon Wikipedia, but I do not consider its failure to be a signal that all constructed languages should suffer the same fate. All languages have a lot of differences, and the failure of a language at some point is the additional experience and knowledge gained by all those involved in this project. Perhaps in the future, with the further development of the language and the inclusion of more and more people in its community, this project will succeed, and for this reason I wish success in advance to all those who will try to create a large-scale information project in the Klingon language, and to all those who created it before, and I give them my undying respect.
As for Tolkien's Elvish languages, with my knowledge of that language I assume such an initiative is more than feasible. Sindarin is no worse than many other languages, and thanks to its rules of word formation it can formulate over 30 billion words and express through them the same number of concepts, so I am sure that all worries about its lexicon are superfluous after all. Nevertheless, I thank you all the same for expressing them.
Speaking of auxiliary languages, I can give a few reflections of my own. We human beings are social beings, and we need a constant exchange of information with each other, because without this communication our society would fall apart. But we all live in different cultures and religions, in different time zones and climatic zones, and all this, one way or another, affects our way of thinking, our character, and everything else. For this reason, not all people in the world have the same favorite foods and movies. For the same reason, each person for international communication, being free from birth, chooses his or her own language or languages that are suitable and convenient for that person. Therefore, any language that wants to become a world language will be a world language, but only a certain percentage of the world's population will speak it.
Also, thank you very much for your words of support. For our project, they are now more valuable than ever. Calad-ne-dúath (talk) 13:31, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Wt/cuEdit

Very small pages, test main page is a copy from cu:главьна страница, there is a Сѥ ѥстъ мъногоѩꙁꙑчьна отврьста єнкѷклопєдїꙗ · ѭжє къжьдо можєтъ иꙁмѣнꙗти ⁙ Википєдїꙗ пьсана [[||Словѣньскъ ѩꙁꙑкъ|словѣньскꙑимь ѩꙁꙑкомь]] начѧта ѥстъ їоунїꙗ 2006 лѣта Дьньсь Википєдїи 4 члѣни сѫтъ text (no difference from wikipedia), some english text in, unactive wiki. 155.137.183.105 17:29, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Ok, This is the Wiktionary Old church Slavonic LOLI'mfriggin silly (talk) 02:42, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Inactivity itself shouldn't be a valid reason for deletion. Some pages aren't that small - Wt/cu/бесада, Wt/cu/бесѣда, Wt/cu/боукꙑ. A little number of English words and copied content could be fixed using a dictionary. --Wolverène (talk) 05:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
    • Fixed. Not sure about the accusative form of "Викиаꙁъбоукъвьникъ" - either unchanged or "Викиаꙁъбоукъвьника". --Wolverène (talk) 06:29, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
  • KEEP no valid reason to delete was expressed. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 19:22, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
    Due to Wp/orv success, I don't think there are no valid reason to delete this test project. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
    I didn’t say there are no valid reasons, I said that no valid reason were epxreseed. Change my mind. Anyways, I understand that Wp/omv was deleted because it was not written from a neautral point of view. -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 21:58, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Delete Has only contents that are propagandas rather than seriously contributed dictionary pages. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:20, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
    • May I learn more which pages can be considered as propaganda? Of course since it is written in a historical language now used as liturgical by the Church it may not be potentially 100% neutral in this field... or do you mean governmental propaganda? I looked at the Main Page and did not read anything special. --Wolverène (talk) 08:59, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
      Just see why Wp/orv was deleted, where I provided the link above, as said by an admin at I:AN, for projects listed at Category:Incubator:Test_wikis/code/history, They will eventually be deleted. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:17, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Wp/nysEdit

After tagging a few pages by one specific editor for deletion as written in the wrong language, I started looking further and found that the entire wiki appears to be written in English, apart from some seemingly mindless AWB replacements of common prepositions, conjunctions and other small words. Unless there is content actually written in Nyugar, there is no need to host this on the Incubator. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 17:44, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

I remember there was a discussion about these things some time ago, the meta request might give some insight.User:Aarghdvaark and User:Gnangarra might also want to comment. --MF-W {a, b} 23:50, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
If it was verified as eligible I don’t think it can be deleted. The content is written in English though so idk what should be done. Maybe invite speakers of the language to translate it? -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 08:23, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
The language being verified as eligible does not mean all the content it contains should be kept. If it's all English, it's simply no longer the language discussed. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 08:28, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
  • Delete Not really written in Noongar, the same reason Wy/no was deleted also applies here. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:29, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
    Based on below suggestions, I'd change my opinion to move to Incubator Plus. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:20, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Archive dont delete I contacted the Language Committee ESEAP region representative in 16th December 21 asking for the nys to be archived. Prior to that I had admin tools on nys and attempted to remove/delete solely in english language pages that had no Noongar input but the pages were restored and I was told by the LC not to delete them. I had also used AWB to make some common word changes to Nyungar. In late 2017 I was approached told nys was good to go live, it'd be discussed in Berlin in April. In April 2018 in Berlin I was told it was good to go but first we had do 1500 translate wiki translation for the skin. Each of these changes had negative impact on the communities development. Forcing me to again rebuild the contributor community. Last 2 years its been near impossible to host the events to rebuild again. I'm more than happy to have admin rights again providing I have the freedom to delete pages that shouldnt be there, and then see the project archived(not editable) keeping the efforts of those people who acted in good faith over the years rather than it being deleted. There has been too many bad faith actions taken over the years, it would have been nice to have had an opportunity to discuss the depth of issues before finding out about this from a third party. It would be nice for the Language committee especially the member "responsible for the region" to make an effort to respond as well. I had a funding request in November to get the support needed to dedicate time to again rebuilding the community, but that got morphed into a monster project by WMF & WMAU beyond the fundings capacity to something I wasnt willing to take on in the current covid restricted climate. Gnangarra (talk) 08:00, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
    I'm not sure who told you you can't delete pages that shouldn't be there. Of course that is possible. I also don't know who the language committee's "regional representative" is, as langcom doesn't have such posts. --MF-W {a, b} 13:37, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
    See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee#Current User:Janwo is listed as contact for the region, Stephen White was the one who said I wasnt to delete en pages Gnangarra (talk) 14:53, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
    I see - that was a misunderstanding then, the table merely lists where members live. Anyway, I don't know why Steven said that, and we can't ask him since he is inactive. However, again, I really see no reason why English pages should not be deleted - this isn't the English Wikipedia, but the Nyungar one, hopefully. -- MF-W {a, b} 03:43, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
    @MF-Warburg: If I had admin rights I'd do a cleanup but there isnt an active community at the moment, I dont have resources to invest in building it at the moment so for now archiving is the ideal option perhaps restrict to admin access so it can be cleaned up Gnangarra (talk) 12:26, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
    User:Gnangarra: you can get admin rights to do a cleanup immediately if you want. If not, it's also ok to let the project be for the moment. We can't restrict access so it would have to remain visible. -- MF-W {a, b} 00:26, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
  • Don't delete. I believe all of Wikipedia, specifically including Noongarpedia, should be seen and used as a resource for appropriate communities. That means it should be written in the language of that community. I believe there are something of the order of 300 native Noongar speakers and unfortunately because of the cultural dichotomy these people would not edit Noongarpedia. The language is not dead as people are learning the language, but many of these people do not reach the stage of advanced speakers of a foreign language, let alone fluent speakers, so these people too would not become editors writing in Noongar. There is a page on Noongarpedia which explains the usage of Noongar in the Noongar community. To quote from the page Wp/nys/Using and Editing the Noongarpedia#Modern Noongar dialect groups:
Many people in the Noongar community mostly use English with some Noongar words. To deny these people a community building resource of their own Wiki on the grounds that they speak the language of the people who took their lands is perverse. Denying the fact that the community actively uses English would lead to Noongarpedia being developed only as an ethnographic and historical resource for listing texts solely written in one or another Noongar dialect. Given that Noongar was purely an oral language when it was dominant this is an irrelevant task and is of no help to disadvantaged language communities seeking to reinstate their language and support their communities.
I myself initially tried to only correct the formatting and English mistakes of posts on the Noongarpedia, as I am not Noongar but an experienced Wikipedia editor, but found I was drawn in to make posts to document both important and seemingly unimportant things as there were few other people contributing consistently. I think this emphasis on language purity has not helped in the development of the Noongarpedia, indeed Gnangarra above states that these language imperatives have previously smashed developing user communities for Noongarpedia. And I too gave up contributing to Noongarpedia because a page I had created was deleted because it was in English, following one of these pure language purges. Aarghdvaark (talk) 10:40, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Your efforts are appreciated. There is no accurate numbers on speakers, but there are 2 million people who speak the language in part, and its taught in schools in Perth. The data of 240 is ABS data that doesnt ask if people speak it or how fluently but rather they ask what is the primary language spoken at home to answer noongar is not a simple box yick but rather navigating through complex menus and then writing it in. After that the ABS doesnt collate the various spellings but rather chooses to view each as separate languages with many of the 15 known spellings getting discarded in the process. For the majority of Nyungar Adults it was a criminal offense to speak the language up until 1992 children in WA education system were frequently punished for doing so. The part of the equation is that being declared endangered creates access to funding for Universities, being declared extinct means that protocols around community consultation are removed. All these issues amplify the need for poor usage statistics. I speak, write, and use nyungar/noongar on a regular basis but I dont meet the ABS requirements to be recorded though I can chose to lie on the census. Gnangarra (talk) 15:08, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
@Aarghdvaark, if the community is generally unable to use its ancestors' language but wishes to create the Noongarpedia in more spread English, it's not necessary to create the project under the Wikimedia Foundation label - just move it to a separate wiki site, it may be in English, Noongar, their mix or whatever. Also if the wiki is written in English, the English Wikipedia fits perfectly to contain the pages on the Noongar culture... but the pages should meet the local policy of course.
Wp/nys is intended to be used only for pages in Noongar. Culturally, the Noongar language is not better or worse than other languages considered moribund. E.g. the Manchu Test Wikipedia is written in Manchu itself, although there are only 20 native speakers and a couple of thousands of second-language speakers, versus ~11 millions of ethnic Manchus. Of course now we can't be sure about the quality of their pages, but they don't write in Chinese which is the language of 99,(9) % Manchus. --Wolverène (talk) 09:27, 11 April 2022 (UTC)