Talk:Wp/mnc
NOTICE
These were discussions of the past on Manchu Wikipedia. If you want to discuss now, please come here. However, please do not delete the discussions below because they contain some useful information.
Updates of Manchu Wikipedia
edit- October 2005 - 15 December 2006 : First attempt
- 30 March 2007 - present : Second attempt
- 30 March 2007 - 17 April 2007 : Manchu Vocabulary/Relationship with other Altaic languages, Preview of Manchu script with Sample Manchu text
- 17 April 2007 - 4 May 2007 : Reorganization of Manchu vocabulary and Creation of a portal
- 19 April 2007 - present : Creation templates
Status : Manchu Wikipedia in 3 Differents Level
edit- Level 1 ujui/tuktan tangkani: Manchu articles redirected to English Wikipedia : 85 articles
- Level 2 jacin/dulimba tangkani: Manchu articles written only in Romanized Manchu language : 6 articles
- Level 3 ilaci/den tangkani : Manchu articles written in pure Manchu script : 0 article (It's latin......Daicing gurun-i Enduringge Han-i gung erdemui bei
Sample Manchu text (in Unicode)
editᠮᠠᠨᠴᠤ;
4ᠮᠠᠨᠴᠤ 3ᠮᠠᠨᠴᠤ 2ᠮᠠᠨᠴᠤ 1ᠮᠠᠨᠴᠤ
Relationship with other Altaic languages (tulergi guruni gisun)
editThe tables below provides a vocabulary comparison that illustrates a number of examples of sound shifts that have occurred between Goguryeo languages and the main w:Buyeo and w:Tungusic languages, along with a selection of minority languages.
| English | Goguryeo Chinese pronun. |
Turkic | Mongol | w:Old Japanese | Japanese | Baekje | Silla | w:Middle Korean | Korean | Tungusic | Jurchen | Manchu | Evenki |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ruler | k∧i/kai (皆) |
*** | kaγan(可汗) | ki1mi1(君) | *** | kan(干)/han(翰) | kan(干) | *** | *** | *** | *** | han | *** |
| hole (孔) | dzei〈tsei〉-ts‘ii 斉次/濟次 |
*** | *** | suk-（透）,suki（隙） | あな ,こう （ａｎａ,kou孔） | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** |
| hole (穴) | kap,kap-pii 甲,甲比 |
qapca（峡谷）,qapi¨γ（門蔽い） | *** | kafi<*kapi;ｋａΦi1（峡 | あな（ana,穴） | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** |
| stone | *** | *** | *** | *** | いし（石） | turak(珍惡) | 돓 (石) | 돌ㅎ(石) | *** | *** | *** | jahari(碎石子,small pieces of stone) | *** |
| Rock,Soil (巌,峴,岑) | pa-・ιəi,pua-・ιəi*pàI,pa'i /ｐｕａ-斤ｅｉ,*paxe 巴衣,波衣,波兮 |
*** | *** | ｉΦａ-Φｏ（巌） | いわお （ iwao 巌） | *** | *** | ｐａ-ｈｏｉ（巌）巴衣,바회 | *** | pax（石・崖） (Nivkh) |
*** | wehe,boihon | *** |
| Land (壌,壤) | nuəi/no/nua 内/奴～弩/悩 |
*** | *** | na(地,国・大地） | 国、陸地 kuni ,rikuti くに 、りくち | *** | nu¨～nu¨ri/nε (世） | na-rah나랗(國,国) | *** | na (地,土地） | na | na（土地） | *** |
| Nation | (nua) >na/no 內,那,奴,惱 |
*** | ulus(<*hulu-s<* bulu-s) | kohori '郡' - | *** | puri (부리,夫里) | *** | *** | *** | guru-n(< * buru-n) | guru-n(< * buru-n) | gurun | *** |
| walled city, fort’,castle | kuru/ku ër/huət/hol (忽) |
qol-γan | k ri-yen '울타리, 방책',/qol-γan | kì/ｋi2/kuru | *** | ｋｉ/puri (부리,夫里) | 火(伐. por) | 벌 (野) | kol（谷・洞） | kur ~kur ~kuran | *** | kuran~ kuren 城, 柵, /holo（谷）/golo（省） | *** |
| Fire | (城) |
*** | *** | *** | *** | pu¨ri（集落） | 火(伐. por), ｐɔ¨ｌ（火）/ｐ∧ｌ（集落） | ｐщｌ（火） | *** | *** | towo | tuwa,bulu-(暖) | *** |
| high | dat/§ap (or tar) (達) |
*** | *** | taka-si（高）/take2（岳） | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | den(<dek-,to rise,升起) | *** |
| mountain (山/沱) | gapma/mιuən (達/文) |
taγ（山） | *** | yama(山)/mure(山)/mori(森) | *** | *** | moe (山) | moi(山) | *** | *** | *** | alin,hada | *** |
| tree,wood | ・ιet/kìr ~ key/kιən (乙/斤) |
i¨(森)/i¨γac(木) | *** | kì/ki2/ke2～ko2/ku | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | moo,hälin(*ilan boo i angga gisun) | *** |
| spring water ((泉(井))) | əl ,er, ・ιo-・ιet(-mai) 於乙(買) |
bul-a-q(泉)/bul-a-γ(泉) | ωs (水) | iri (泉)/ 伊梨(iri)/wi(井) | *** | *** | 'ɔ¨l(井) | u-mщl(井戸水) | *** | eri～erri（川） (Nivkh) |
*** | üla (江) | *** |
| water (水,川) | mai,mie/ 모로 (買,米,模盧) |
*** | mören뫼렌 (江, 海) müren (沐漣) /뮈렌moron (木連) (Khitanese) |
midu/ｍi1 | *** | *** | *** | 믈/ｍщl | *** | mu | mu 沒 | mu-ke | mū(水) |
| sea | pua (波) |
*** | *** | *** | うみ ｕｍｉ 海 | *** | patɔr | patah～par∧ | *** | *** | *** | bolo(山谷),boljon | *** |
| Pond | nuəi-^^/*nuam /nami (内米) |
*** | *** | nami 波 | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | namu, lamu(海) | *** | namu(洋),mederi | *** |
| big/long | na (奈) |
*** | *** | naga(長) | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | amba,golmin | *** |
| mouth | huət-ts‘ii/ku ërtsi/k útsi< *kutui, >* kolci/ko-ts‘ii (忽次/古次/串) |
*** | 훌츠qurc(Khalka)(串) | kutu～kuti/kuti < *kutui | *** | *** | *** | 곶(串) | kulrε (Cheju dialect) kul(South Jeolla dialect) |
*** | *** | kut-(cattle) | *** |
| to enter | ・ιｉ/*i (伊) |
*** | ire- (to come) |
ir-（入） | *** | *** | *** | ip（口）/ip（門戸） | *** | i-（入） | *** | -ji-(dosimbi inu) | *** |
| new | ∫ιəｕ/*sü 首 |
*** | *** | *** | *** | say | 새 | sai (새) | *** | *** | iche | ice | *** |
| ox | ∫ιəｕ/*sü 首 |
*** | *** | usi | *** | *** | *** | syo/쇼 | *** | *** | *** | ihan | *** |
| pig | ・o-sie/・ｏ-s^i¨Λη 烏斯/烏生 |
*** | *** | wi | *** | *** | *** | *** | doijie/돼지 | *** | *** | ulgiyen | *** |
| Water deer | kosaya (古斯也) |
*** | *** | kuzika | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | bugu,buhū | *** |
| horse | *** | *** | mori～muri | uma～muma | *** | *** | *** | ｍΛｌ/(馬) | *** | mori (Nanai) |
*** | morin | *** |
| Axe | ・ιo-sie (於斯) |
*** | *** | ｗｏｎo2 | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | suhe | *** |
| (廣) | 어시 (於斯) |
*** | osy/esy 阿斯(寬大) (Khitanese) | *** | *** | *** | *** | 어위 (< *어쉬) | *** | *** | 오초očo 我撮(寬) | ončo(廣) | *** |
| (横) | ・ιo-sie/*es (於斯) |
*** | *** | yo2ko2（横)/yo2k-（避） | *** | *** | *** | əs/엇 | *** | *** | *** | hetu | *** |
| Lead | nəi-miuət/namer (乃勿) |
*** | *** | namari | *** | *** | *** | namɔr | nap/납 | *** | *** | tarcan | *** |
| valley | tan/tuən/t‘ən (旦,頓,呑) |
*** | *** | tani | *** | *** | *** | t∧n～tu∧n（村） | *** | *** | *** | ton（数目,号码）tokso（村） | *** |
| Grain | niəη-biu∧t 仍伐 |
*** | *** | ina-Φo（稲穂）/mi2（実） | *** | *** | *** | pyə（稲） | nui （白米中に混じた稗） |
*** | *** | bele,ira(糜子) | *** |
| rough | kuət-・ιəi (骨衣) |
*** | *** | *** | *** | *** | ka¨c‘ɔ¨l | kəc‘щl | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** |
| Plough | ka-∫ιi (加尸) |
kerci-（切る、溝を掘る） | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | karai（木[木+欠]・鍬）,kal-（耕す）,kal（刀） | *** | gerbe-(折る) (Nanai) |
*** | halhan（犂先）/halhan～halgan(犂[金+華]) | gerbe-(折る) |
| side edge | ka-(・a) (加阿) |
kera | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | k∧s | *** | *** | *** | erin(边,时) | *** |
| round | toη-pιuəi (冬非) |
*** | *** | tubura（丸）/maro2（丸） | *** | *** | *** | tuηkщl（丸） | *** | *** | *** | tongki（圈点满文之点） | *** |
| Iron | mau-・ιet (毛乙) |
ta¨mir（鉄） | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | sele | *** |
| Heavy (重) | bιεt (別) |
*** | *** | Φe1 | *** | *** | *** | p∧l | *** | *** | *** | ujen | *** |
| pine | pιu-sie/pιu-so (扶蘇/扶蘇) |
*** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | sol（松）/pos（樺） | *** | *** | *** | jakdan | *** |
| green | bιu∧t-lιək (伐力) |
*** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | p‘ulu- | *** | *** | *** | niowanggiyan | *** |
| deep | bιuk-sie/puk (伏斯) |
*** | *** | Φuka-si/puka- | *** | *** | *** | kiph u˙n | *** | *** | *** | šumin | *** |
| foot | (廻) |
palgan(足) | *** | kuw-（蹴） | *** | *** | *** | 발(足) | *** | *** | fuli (to walk) | bethe | halgan(足) |
| Weasel (狌) | yia-∫ιi (也尸) |
*** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** |
| Village | ιi-bιu∧t-t∫ιe (伊伐支) |
*** | *** | usi（主） | *** | *** | *** | ius（隣） | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** |
| Frost | sat (薩) |
*** | *** | simo | *** | *** | *** | səri | *** | *** | *** | saimagi | *** |
| (菁) | ka-t∫ιe (加支) |
*** | *** | kabu（蕪・頭） | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** |
| (鵠) | ko-・ιəi (古衣) |
qoγu | *** | kukuΦi1～kubi1 | *** | *** | *** | ｋｏｈａｉ | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** |
| group, tribe | 斤ιu-∫ιi /uji (于尸) |
*** | *** | ukara（族） | *** | *** | *** | ul（戚） | *** | *** | *** | uksura | *** |
| tooth | k∧i-∫ιi (皆尸) |
*** | *** | ki1 | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | weihe | *** |
| flat, level | pii-lιεt/piar (比烈) |
biri | *** | pira- | *** | *** | *** | y o˙th o˙/ny o˙th o˙/’yath u˙n,yət-t‘щl | *** | *** | *** | necin | *** |
| mother | yia-ts'ii (也次) |
*** | *** | ΦaΦa(母)/oya(親) | *** | *** | *** | əｍｉ（母・親） | *** | *** | eniyen | eme,eniye | *** |
| baby | gιəu-sie/ku(s) (仇斯) |
*** | *** | ko1 (子) | kodomo | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | omo | juse | kuηa (子供) |
| bear | komok (功木) |
*** | *** | kuma | kuma | koma | *** | koma | kom | *** | *** | lefu | *** |
| rabbit | ・o-sie-həｍ usaxam osaham (烏斯含) |
tawïsγan | *** | usagi1～wosagi1 | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | gūlmahūn | *** |
| To meet | p∧k/*pak (伯) |
bak-（見） | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | po-（見る）/poi-～poizΛp-（謁見する） | *** | baka -(찾다) | baha-（得） | baka-（発見） |
| hard | ma (馬) |
*** | *** | ma(真) | *** | *** | *** | *** | modzi- (酷,激) | *** | manga(難) | maηga(堅,難) | maηa |
| heart chest |
kιo-∫ιi (居尸) |
göğüs | kökün | ko2ko2ro2(心)/koro(自分自身) | *** | *** | *** | *** | kogäŋi / kasʰщm(心,胸) | *** | *** | huhun (乳,乳房) | *** |
| garlic | mai-t∫ιi (買尸) |
*** | maηgirsun(野蒜) | mi1ra(韮) | *** | *** | *** | man∧l (蒜) |
manщl | *** | *** | *** | *** |
| root | ts∧m (斬) |
*** | *** | *** | *** | *** | pul?(根) | pul-hui(根) | *** | t∫amγ（根株） (Nivkh |
*** | fulehe,da | *** |
| writing litterature |
ｋιən-∫ιi (斤尸) |
*** | *** | ko2to2（言） | *** | *** | *** | ｋщｌ | ｋщｌ | *** | herse | hergen | *** |
| jade | ko-sie (古斯) |
*** | gas | kusiro2（釧) | *** | *** | *** | kusщl | *** | *** | γun | gu | *** |
| three | mir, mil (密) siet/s^ïei (悉/史) |
bis(5) | gurav | mi | mi | *** | mil | sei/səih | sʰet̚ | *** | ilan | ilan | *** |
| five | ütsi,uci,üc, uca,uchha (宇次) |
üç(3) | *** | itu | itsu | *** | *** | *** | *** | dügün | sunja | sunja | *** |
| seven | nan-・ιən, nanən,nanun, nanin (難隠) |
*** | *** | nana | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | nadan | nadan | nadan | *** |
| ten | tək,duk (德) |
on toquz(9) |
arav | tö2wö | tō- | *** | *** | *** | yol | juwa | juwan | juwan | ʒuwan |
| black | *kəmər, kəmhək (今勿) |
kara | *** | kuro1 | kuro (i) | *** | *** | kəm-/검- | k∧m | *** | *** | kara,sahaliyan | *** |
| white | nə γei ∫ιi-lap (奈兮 / 尸臘) |
*** | *** | naga(長)/sira(白) | shiro(i) | *** | *** | hΛi(白) | hΛi | *** | *** | šanggiyan | *** |
| red | s^a-bιuk s^a-pιuəi-kιən sa(i)puk, sa(i)pikon sapi 沙伏, 沙非斤 |
*** | hulaan | söfo<*söpo/so2Φo(赭,朱)/sa(接頭語) | *** | supi(赤鳥) | *** | pulgщn | *** | *** | *** | fulgiyan | *** |
| yellow | kweyru/kuət kuër,kuər (骨) |
*** | *** | ki2-~ kú- | ki(iroi) | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | *** | kūke(青色),suwayan | *** |
...-(r)akū= negation
Index (N = Nanai) (J = Jurchen) (M = Manchu)
elder brother- aga (N) ahun (J) agu (M, although its used for elder men) ahun (M)
spirit - aimi (N) eringe (J) enduringge (M)
gold - aishin (N) ancun (J) aisin (M)
mouth - amnga (N) amga (J) angga (M)
heaven/sky - ba (N) abka (J) abka (M)
bowl - cheremi (N) moro (J) moro (M)
father (formal) - ama (N) amin (J) ama (M)
sea - lamu (N) meterin (J) namu,mederi (M)
cow - ihan (N) ihan (ox)(J) ihan (M)
turtle (Chinese based word) - hailung (N)
dragon - muduri (N) mudur (J) muduri (M)
water - muk (N) mu (J) muke (M)
horse - morin (N) morin (J) morin (M)
cart - sejen (N) seje (J) sejen (M)
dog - yinda (N) indahun (J) indahūn (M)
1- emke (N) emu (J) emu/emke (M)
2- juru (N) juwe (J) juwe (M)
3- ilan (N) ilan (J) ilan (M)
4-duyin (N) duwin (J) duin (M)
5-sunja (N) s/shunja (J) sunja (M)
6-ninggu (N) ningu (J) ninggun (M)
7-nadan (N) nadan (J) nadan (M)
8-jakung (N) jakun (J) jakun (M)
9-uyun (N) uyun (J) uyun (M)
10-juan (N) juwa (J) juwan (M)
11-juanke (N) amso (J) juwan emu (M)
12-juwan juwe (M)
15-topkun (N) tobohon (J) tofohon (M)
20-x|ori.̃(N) horin(J) orin (M)
47-tehi nadan (J) ᠔᠗ - ᡩᠵᡥᢗ ᠨ᠇ᠳ᠇ᡝ dehi nadan (M)
So, can we delete this now?
editThere are 1/10 as many pages written in Manchu on this wikipedia as the PRC estimates there are speakers of the language, and this is one of the least spoken Altaic languages which still exists. Why don't we have a Xibe wikipedia while we're at it? They outnumber Manchu speakers 500 to 1. I know "Manchu" is a sexy sounding word that reminds us all of big moments in Chinese history, but most people who speak the language today don't call themselves "Manchu" and most people who call themselves "Manchu" don't speak the language today.
The author of this unsigned comment is 118.160.171.238, see this. (Added by 虞海 (Yú Hǎi))
- Go ahead ! --Budelberger 21:05, 21 December 2008 (UTC) (
). - No! You can start a Xibe Wikipedia but do NOT delete this. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi)
- Who, « you » ? Me ? I have starterd a Xibe test, but I don't want Manchu test to stop ! See here… --Budelberger 08:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC) ( ).
- Well, 118.160.171.238 said "So, can we delete this now?" and you replied "Go ahead !" so I thought you want to delete this. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 09:28, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
- Who, « you » ? Me ? I have starterd a Xibe test, but I don't want Manchu test to stop ! See here… --Budelberger 08:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC) (
Script and font size
editI think we can use the traditional manchu script thwartwise instead of using Romanized script.And i feel the font is too small. Shall we make it largely? For example font-size: 160%
I`m Manchu. ᠪᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᠨᡳᠶᠠᠯᠮᠠ᠉
I`m Manchu. ᠪᡳ ᠮᠠᠨᠵᡠ ᠨᡳᠶᠠᠯᠮᠠ᠉
The author of this unsigned comment is Sider, see this. (Added by 虞海 (Yú Hǎi))
- Support, if you're really a Manchu people. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 03:30, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Unicode of Manchu has been developed now. And I have just seen a Mongolian-language website where the traditional vertical Mongolian script is used. The address of this website is [1] (Xin Hua Net of China(PRC) in Mongolian). Unicode of Manchu has been developed now. So can we think about the Manchu script now? --Obonggi (talk) 04:21, 15 August 2016 (UTC)Obonggi
Main Page?
editIs it OK to translate the word as "ujui bithe" into Manchu? Or do you have some better ideas? --Bi oci emke demesi.Niyalma de tusa arambi 20:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
- I propose ᡠᠵᡠᡳ ᠠᡶᠠᡥᠠ (ujui afaha), literally "first page". 160.39.22.28 05:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
- inu sain. sinde banihalambi. --Bi oci emke demesi.Niyalma de tusa arambi 14:33, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
Logo
editThe logo needs to be replaced. The present one reads: "Fikipedin, freely complete book". Dalt 22:16, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
- How about this:"Fikipediya(or "Uikipediya), yaya niyalma imbe araci ojoro bithe"? but it seems that it's not better than the previous one......=_=" --Bi oci emke demesi.Niyalma de tusa arambi 14:33, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
- Note:I've modfied my suggestion from the old one into "Fikipediya(or "Uikipediya), yaya niyalma i araci ojoro tacin bithe/yooni bithe" .......=_="--Bi oci emke demesi.Niyalma de tusa arambi 19:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
The Manchu script version should be added on the Logo, otherwise it is no more Manchu.|Logo的圖片上面應該加上豎版的滿文，不然就不是滿語維基了。Obonggi (talk) 09:25, 13 August 2016 (UTC)Obonggi Beins
- OK, I added it. But the currently problem is there is Inkscape 0.91, the most desirable FOSS SVG editor as I know, does not support Manchu text layout at all, so I have made it as PNG only. --Great Brightstar (talk) 16:46, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you! But there are some errors in the PNG. Maybe your version is Xibe, but in Manchu the thing is different from that. (1)ku in buleku (2)ki in Uikipidiya (3)sul in sulfangga . Can you bother fix it? --Obonggi (talk) 04:13, 15 August 2016 (UTC)Obonggi
- OK, I fixed it. In this version I reproduce the text via Manchu input method of BabelPad (previous version I was made by coping letters from Wikipedia article). It seems to me that u is spelled by "Sibe Ue" in this case, ki in Uikipidiya is spelled as ke instead. --Great Brightstar (talk) 12:05, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Some thoughts......
editIn order to write some articles, I invented some terms that hasen't been found in other places yet...... --高坂桐乃@きりりん氏 22:45, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Probably a big issue before Wp/mnc can be approved?
editPlease help translate to your language On m:Talk:Language committee/2022#Approval of Manchu Wikipedia, it was pointed that some users are socking (i.e. using Sockpuppet accounts), and likely the potential approval process can only be continued by firstly resolving it. @Nikki, MiiCii and Chulsu463 Do we know how to resolve the members' this concern? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
I didn't use account since 2 years ago when I realized there was a rule for that. I won't violate any further rules. if community concern these situations I deserve it. Chulsu463 (talk) 17:50, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Liuxinyu970226Maybe we should ask somebody who is responsible for finding and blocking sockpuppets.
- Do any Langcom member work with that problem?
- P.S. I'm not a sockpuppet maker)).
- Пан Хаунд (talk) 20:00, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Liuxinyu970226 Sorry, I don't know. I'll.quit.
- MiiCii (talk) 00:52, 4 March 2024 (UTC)