Talk:Wp/cop/ⲙⲟⲥⲭⲱ

Russian titles

How should we render titles taken from other languages? More specifically in case of this page, Russian ones?

• Tsar (Царь) – ⲧⲥⲁⲣ or ⲧⲥⲁⲣⲟⲥ (like in modern Greek) or ⲕⲁⲓⲥⲁⲣ? And what about female form Tsaritsa (Царица)?
• Knyaz (Князь) – ⲕⲛⲉⲁⲥ or ⲕⲛⲏⲁⲍ (which would be closer to Russian pronunciation)? Also f. Knyaginya (Княгиня).
• Boyarin (Боярин) – ⲡⲟⲓⲁⲣⲓⲛ?
• Tsardom – ⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁⲣ? ⲙⲉⲧⲕⲁⲓⲥⲁⲣ? How do we distinguish it from Empire? --Bloomaround (talk) 18:34, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

I would use ⲕⲁⲓⲥⲁⲣ or ⲕⲁⲓⲥⲁⲣⲟⲥ for Tsar, which is similar to the use in Arabic. There are not many people who know what a ⲧⲥⲁⲣ(ⲟⲥ) is, but we can mention it as a special title.

If we like to talk about the Russian Empire in particular, we could use ⲙⲉⲧⲕⲁⲓⲥⲁⲣⲟⲥ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲣⲱⲥⲓⲁ. But I think the context clarifies it anyway.

For Knyaz, I would write ⲭⲛⲁⲥ, as k before consonants like w, y, l, m, n, r gets changed to ⲭ if it is part of a stressed syllable. The y in knyaz is not heavily pronounced, is it? Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk)

Well y is there just to represent the softness of the whole "a" sound, and if we use ⲭⲛⲁⲥ we kinda lose that feeling. That's why i put "ⲓ" in there. --Bloomaround (talk) 00:33, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

I prefer ⲭⲛⲁⲥ, but I can live with ⲭⲛⲓⲁⲥ and ⲭⲛⲉⲁⲥ too. The problem is that the Russian y sound is just too negligeable that it needs to be written down in Coptic. Only ⲭⲛⲏⲁⲥ does not work, because the Hida is rather used for long i. ⲭ is better here than normal Kappa as the sound is both before or part of the stressed syllable and in front of n. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 00:15, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

BTW, that reminds me of an important discussion we should have: So far, I've seen that K T P in foreign names are written ⲭ ⲫ ⲑ, regardless of whether they are part of a stressed syllable or not. Maybe we should reduce that extensive use of ⲭ ⲫ ⲑ, even more so because it is not in line with traditional Coptic orthography, which uses these letters less often than we do it in the Wikipedia here. Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk)

Yeah, I've noticed that too. It gets too much sometimes. --Bloomaround (talk) 00:33, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Please look here for this: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wp/cop/%E2%B2%A7%CF%A3%E2%B2%89%E2%B2%A3%E2%B2%A1%E2%B2%A5%E2%B2%89%E2%B2%97%E2%B2%93%E2%B2%A5#Transliteration/Transcription ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 00:15, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

ⲡⲟⲓⲁⲣⲓⲛ is fine.

As a knyaz is like a Western European duke, we could also translate it as ⲇⲟⲩⲝ (ⲇⲟⲩⲝ is duke in Coptic). Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 20:22, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Yeah that's the way it's done in English, but mostly for Grand Dukes of Russian Empire. We could use it the same way. --Bloomaround (talk) 00:33, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

ⲕ

Why not use ⲕ? The word is of no Egyptian origin. Is the ⲕ restricted to Greek origins? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 23:04, 12 January 2022 (UTC)